Putting 2:03:23 in Perspective

There are 40 million Kenyans and at most 100 world elite runners among them.

There are 300 million Americans and over 1000 professional football players, who would completely destroy any and all football players from other countries.

Genetics has nothing to do with it. The east Africans are more into competitive running than Americans are. If America were to ditch football and running became the national sport, look out world records.

First of all, excellent post. Very hard to comprehend running this pace for 26.2 miles. I am a hack at running, but a big fan of running. I could only keep up that pace for 1.5 miles, so it is hard for me too imagine what he did yesterday. One thing that struck me was how composed he was after the effort, not at all looking like a Man that run ran a WR. If you ever read Derek Claytons book, “Running to the Top”, after his WR in Antwerp he was absolutely destroyed.

It now seems feasible that someone in the next couple of years will string together a couple of 1:01+ half marathons and run in the 2:02’s.

It is amazing to think that in 1985, Steve Jones came through the half at Chicago in 1:01:46, that was 28 years ago! So look for a 2:02 in the near future.

Thanks again for your post.

OP lost me on that last paragraph.

He should read 'Running with the Kenyans.'

The last paragraph is as good as the others.

"On the flip side: Has this sport (among others) gone too far? With all the problems in the world, is this commitment justified? I think the answer can only be yes if it is making us stronger, more wholesome contributors to humanity. But with all of the drug allegations, cheating scandals, and bureaucratic power plays going on, I'm just not so sure."

The sport is good and bad. One of my pet hates is the way that drug testers believe in the drugs they are testing for, instead of educating people. This is a conflict of interest is it not?

I do not think that most of you are getting my last point. I believe running has the potential to literally enlighten the world and contribute towards a better tomorrow for all of humanity. No matter the distance, from 40 yards to 100 miles, it requires no special equipment, and it can be done by one's self in the woods or amongst thousands in a major city race. I feel that many financially successful runners, especially in East Africa, have done much to better the quality of life of those around them. What I call into question is the commercialization of the sport.

I also find it sad that in many places where a running culture once thrived, most notably the UK, but also N. Africa, W. Europe, and elsewhere, the sport has declined in popularity as both E. African dominance and professionalism have taken stronger footholds.

Even in the U.S., I think this is a major issue. While our very best runners are somewhat faster, the average high school and adult competitors are slower. I am not even talking about diluted pools because of larger numbers, I am talking in terms of absolute numbers of quality times. I am from a rural area strewn with very small public high schools of 200-400 students. My dad said when he ran in HS in the 70s, XC didn't even exist around here, but that every meet had a handful of kids running in the high-1:50s, 4:40s, and low 10s. In contrast, today everybody has an XC team, but now in the area only a couple kids will even break 5 in the 1600 and 11 in the 3200.

Regional marathons in the 70s and 80s across the country used to have dozens of finishers in the 2:20 or under area. Now, at least in Asheville, Atlanta, Chattanooga, and other nearby marathons, there will usually be just one or two, and they will usually be semi-professional Kenyans living in America to support folks back home. Even at the NCAA level, the top American HS runners are left in the dust by international students from E. Africa.

Have we just became too lazy as runners, and people in general, to be competitive on the world stage? Sadly, I think the answer may be yes.

What in the world are you talking about? We have huge numbers of sub 9 two milers these days and our college runners are much faster than in the 70s. Our top college runners are running as fast as the 70s world records.

Show us some numbers that we are actually slowing down and getting worse.

vincent44 wrote:

At 4:42 mile pace for Kipsang's Berlin run, the track equivilant would be 104 non stop 400s in approximately 72 seconds.

Stating his performance this way is revealing.

I'm not sure if you are really that bad at math or just a troll trying to give me an aneurysm.

Something else is going on to make todays kids much less fit. The average teenager here in the UK is much fatter than 30 years ago, even 10 years ago. They don't even go round each others houses like they used to do, but prefer to talk to each other via facebook etc.

vincent44 wrote:

At 4:42 mile pace for Kipsang's Berlin run, the track equivilant would be 104 non stop 400s in approximately 72 seconds.

Stating his performance this way is revealing.

105 laps actually... and another 195 meters

Actually 7o.2 sec. per lap.

Orig. theme of post putting it in perspective for me; my HS PR for one mile was 4:42, 1500 m years later was 4:18, 3000 m 9:05 (4:50 mile pace).

I too wonder how, if N. America devoted all interests, finances, to running per se instead of various other national sports, not that there is anuthing bad about these, what potential there could be world classwise?

I thought it was (I saw this in 1981 & was rivited by it!!) Alberto Salazar who finally broke Derek Clayton's long standing WR for the mar. in the New York 1981 Marathon..was there still controversy NY was short?

T-Rex wrote:

Actually 7o.2 sec. per lap.

Orig. theme of post putting it in perspective for me; my HS PR for one mile was 4:42, 1500 m years later was 4:18, 3000 m 9:05 (4:50 mile pace).

I too wonder how, if N. America devoted all interests, finances, to running per se instead of various other national sports, not that there is anuthing bad about these, what potential there could be world classwise?

I thought it was (I saw this in 1981 & was rivited by it!!) Alberto Salazar who finally broke Derek Clayton's long standing WR for the mar. in the New York 1981 Marathon..was there still controversy NY was short?

(Gawd!!!!!!) 70.2 sec per lap

Here is a pretty funny take on the record: http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/super-page/some-dude-broke-the-marathon-world-record-and-it-might-be-the-most-impressive-thing-ive-ever-heard/

wncmtnrnr wrote:

Regional marathons in the 70s and 80s across the country used to have dozens of finishers in the 2:20 or under area. Now, at least in Asheville, Atlanta, Chattanooga, and other nearby marathons, there will usually be just one or two, and they will usually be semi-professional Kenyans living in America to support folks back home. Even at the NCAA level, the top American HS runners are left in the dust by international students from E. Africa.

Have we just became too lazy as runners, and people in general, to be competitive on the world stage? Sadly, I think the answer may be yes.

There were dozens of finishers under 2:20 in big races like Boston and NY during the running boom, not at smaller regional races. These were definitely good times, but not that good. And it was mainly the early 80s. By the late 80s, the number of US runners under 2:20 had dropped off significantly.

I am not sure the US will ever catch up with the E. Africans, but I think the problem today is that it is assumed today that you need to be in a 24/7 training group in order to run a fast marathon. Back in the running boom the debate was whether the top runners could get by on sponsorship and prize money alone or whether they needed to also work a fulltime job. Back then, the idea that a blue collar runner could go from training by himself to winning a major race was very much alive and sometimes a reality. Now, everyone will either quit or just train casually after college and only a very select few will go at it full force with a national training group. Thus, the pool of talent has shrunk considerable even though it is improving. In E. Africa, anyone who wants to give it a shot will move to Iten or Addis and start running with huge groups of amazing runners. Huge talent pool and lots of interaction between up and coming guys and the top guys. It is only natural that the E. Africans will see better results.

add 20k 25k or 30k to the list. Slim pickens I'm certain.

Just another cheating doper.

mo farah would have won this race. if he had ran it all out.

On a track it would be almost exactly 105.5 laps at 70.18 per lap.

First it is 42.195 km x 2.5 laps = 105.49 laps

7403.00 seconds / 26.21875 mi = 282.36 secs/mi

282.36 x .99419 = 280.72

280.72 / 4 = 70.18

OP in thread is good.

the past "greats" were big fish in a small pond. most of them could not win your average college race.

great athletes very rarely run distance.

you are talking about a great void of talent.

now some talented athletes from africa in particular are taking the marathon record into the territory it should be.

that is to run at a natural pace, with a 2 meter-ish stride. that's running, not shuffling, not jogging very fast, not hurrying slowly.

talented men can go 2:02 for the marathon.

anything much faster maybe ain't really all human.