RENATO CANOVA: WILL THE MARATHON WR BE BROKEN?

more like 2-08 i'd say with all the drug testing now...

most of those fast times are doped

lets see what happens

maybe some new guy that's nt on the passport will bust out a wr

eh ???

8 guys have already gone 2"04/2"05 on 3 different courses already this year

just sayin wrote:

more like 2-08 i'd say with all the drug testing now...

most of those fast times are doped

lets see what happens

maybe some new guy that's nt on the passport will bust out a wr

Some people here could be convinced that they needed doping to post on this messageboard! Though it is true that the passport thing is responsible for slow times across the board this year, some athletes' performances have remained somewhat unaffected. That should tell you who is genuine and who is not. I am 100% Kipsang is genuine and so is G. Mutai. Haile too is/was genuine.

That said, I think Kipsang will post a very good time on Sunday. I predict a WR time of 2:03:23!

just sayin wrote:

more like 2-08 i'd say with all the drug testing now...

most of those fast times are doped

lets see what happens

maybe some new guy that's nt on the passport will bust out a wr

Whatever happens your conclusion is the same. If it's off record pace, it's because testing is more effective. If they run within sight of the WR, it's because someone has figured out some new drug/method of subverting testing.

I like to think Wilson can better the WR. However, also if he's one of the most serious and professional runners in the last 4 years, for what I know my real thought is a time a little higher than 2:04.

The winter of Wilson was not like the previous year, in part for the very bad weather in Kenya (and this affected the performances of all Kenyan athletes, with the only ecception of Prisca Jeptoo, who accepted to train on tarmac during the longest rain season of the last 20 years, while the other athletes prefer in any case to train in the mud), in part because he was more busy with his new hotel.

In my opinion, the current WR is not something very hard to better, with perfect conditions and top athletes in full shape. When Patrick Makau ran in 2011 in 2:03:38, his first goal was to beat Gebrselassie, and for that reason he ran 2 km between 26 and 28 under 5:30. This means that, with a "perfect" distribution having in his mind the WR only, Patrick could run very close 2:03:00, and Geoffrey Mutai edition 2011, in a race with perfect weather like Berlin 2011 (or Dubai 2012-2013), about 2:02:30, since in my personal opinion Geoffrey in 2011 was the strongest marathon runner all time, with Moses Mosop very close as value.

The fact is that, after 2011, all these athletes increased their training for trying to win Olympics, and for a Kenyan before winning Olympics they had to be at 110% of the previous shape in order to be selected.....

Last winter I could see every day the hard training, sometimes in very bad conditions, of Wilson, Moses, Abel Kirui (all with me), and I knew what Geoffrey was doing, and also Patrick, from other runners.

They started to have injuries and physical problems : Patrick had a knee problem and dropped out in London, Geoffrey lost more than one month of training in May (I met him some times under the hands of the physio in Iten, so I knew his problem was not completely ok when he ran Boston, and he dropped out), Moses was sick in the last two weeks before Rotterdam, Abel had helicobacter in the stomach, and the only one without problems was a wonderful Wilson Kipsang, who paid before Olympics.

My doubt is that these athletes can stay at 100% for no longer than 2 years only. After this, they can stay at 98% of their peak for 3-5 years yet, if are professional.

But for bettering a record, 98% may be not enough....

And another thing (I don't know who is the other RenatoCanova, not me in any case) : stop to speak about most effective antidoping controls.

In all the major, from 6-7 years there are blood tests for the best 6 plus some other drawn athlete, so nothing changes from the past. And, if you talk of the biological passport, I can continue to say NOBODY among the best Kenyans are afraid of it, BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS CLEAN.

But, when you speak about a WR, and for long time nobody is able to improve, the only reason for many people is "antidoping", like to beat a WR is something easy, and doping is the only reason because you can, or you are not able.

What stupid way to think.... basically speaking without knowing anything about what happens in Kenya or Ethiopia, and without knowing the problems of everybody, which in those Countries are very much more big and widespread than in our Western Countries.

Mr. Canova,

I mean this in the most respectful way, not to attack or challenge your statements about the Kenyan athletes being clean, but to gather more information about why some choose to use banned substances and others do not.

If the vast majority of Kenyan top athletes can run so well while clean, what was different in the case of Matthew Kisorio, who seemed to be approaching the level of G. Mutai and W. Kipsang before a couple of bad marathons and a failed drug test?

Was Kisorio an inferior athlete who decided he should dope to catch up to the others, or was he victimized by some combination of doctors and agents who wanted to profit off of him and his winnings?

I already answered several times this question.

In the top 100 Kenyan athletes of the last 3 years, 2 of them used some banned substance : Mathew Kisorio and Wilson Erupe Loyanai.

Also some woman used banned substances : you can see the list in the Website IAAF, under the voice "Antidoping".

How you can see, THE ONLY ATHLETE TAKING EPO WAS ERUPE.

Mathew Kisorio used some steroid, the same all the women and some athlete not very strong, how it's possible to see from the list.

Two of them (Erupe who ran 2:05:37, and Ronald Kipchumba Rutto who ran about 2:12:00 in Linz) used EPO. Both trained in Iten, and were friends of a pharmacist who gave them something illegal, thinking to help them (and probably not knowing it was illegal, since this guy doesn't know anything about the IAAF rules). They met the pharmacist in the only pub in Iten, where sometimes they go to drink (and already this is the clear signal they are not professional, because drinking beer in Kenya means to become drunk...), and explained they had some problem at the moment (cold and flu) and the pharmacist told them to go to meet him next day in the pharmacy, and after gave something for them ok.

You need to know that, in Kenya, is almost not possible to buy a pharmac in its original package. If you need a tablet, pharmacists remove what you need (may be 3-4 tablets when the package is with 20 tablets), because there is a lack of medicines for normal people, and to be sick is very common in these areas. They put the removed tablets in a normal envelop, nothing is written and nobody knows the composition of the medicine.

For all the ladies, all training in Kapsabet, the substance was the same : a steroid old generation, that everybody can take for common problems (for example, osteoporosis), and every athlete went to the same doctor when injured, so I suppose the doctor gave them the pharmac thinking to help the body to recover faster from the injury.

The only athlete really looking for something enhancing his performances was Kisorio. He went to the doctor when was in perfect conditions, asking some help for training more, because his body seemed not able to sustain the volume he needed for running a fast marathon.

According to what he says, HE STARTED TO TAKE STEROIDS AFTER BOSTON MARATHON, when he practically exploded after 35 km and finished almost walking. He was caught during the test for National Championships on track, in June, when he ran 10000m finishing with one of the worst times of his career (showing which advantage he could have from doping...), while till Boston he, as almost the totality of Kenyan runners, was "water and ugali" only, and in those conditions ran under 59:00 in HM the previous year.

When I speak about Kenyans running clean, THE ONLY NAME PEOPLE USE FOR SHOWING I'M WRONG IS KISORIO.

There are in top 300 marathon runners in the World about 200 Kenyans, other 200 are in all the track events in top 50 in the World, AND AMONG THESE ATHLETES (who are not the TOP I speak about, for me top are athletes in the best 15 in any event...) ONLY KISORIO AND ERUPE WERE POSITIVES.

Of course, there is also somebody else around the World, but their level is the level of an amateur (2:14 in marathon for a Kenyan it means to be about number 600 in the world).

And somebody continues to speak about "WIDESPREAD DOPING", may be because the report of the German jornalist in TV, that was a collection of lies in order to create a scoop.

Do you know his "deep investigation" how long did last ?

2 days ! He was in Iten one day speaking with me, the next day went Nakuru for one of the Kenyan meetings (at that time, without any idea about doping), and in Nakuru met a coach from Kapsabet who, when discovered he was not a new manager but a journalist, gave him the phone number of a doctor in Kapsabet (of course, after receiving money), and the next day Seippelt went to speak with the doctor saying he was a new manager wanting to open a new camp, asking if the doctor could follow the athletes under the point of view of organisation, training and physiotherapy, and the doctor, looking at the possibility to earn easy money, answered he could do everything, "also to use substances for improving the performances".

Next day the journalist went Nairobi, and found the shop inside Hilton hotel where it was possible to buy something illegal for antidoping with a very simple prescription.

I don't think this situation is very different from what we have in our Countries : with a specific prescription of one doctor, everywhere is possible to buy EPO, because is a normal pharmac used with sick people. How to use, and with whom, EPO, is the real problem.

This TV reportage created a mentality of suspicion around the performances of Kenyans, and everybody started to create in his mind a design of "doped athletes", like in the past for East Germany or Countries of the Soviet block.

This in spite the fact doped continue to appear everywhere, from US to European Countries, from Maroc to Asian Countries, BUT NEVER WE SEE SOME ETHIOPIAN OR KENYAN NAME AMONG THE ATHLETES FAILING BIOLOGICAL PASSPORT OR DOPED WITH EPO.

At the end, I think everybody must examine his conscience, asking himself "where are the prooves this athletes are dirty ?", without trying to convince himself with crazy and stupid ideas, such as a "conspiracy" because IAAF wants to protect those African Countries (but of course not US, not Russia, not Spain, not India and not all the Countries where there is some doped athlete).

I'm tired to explain the reality to people not using their brain.

I really enjoy what you have to say and I think that you're an excellent coach and I believe what you say.

I can relate wrote:I really enjoy what you have to say and I think that you're an excellent coach and I believe what you say.

+1000. I have great respect for you, Renato.

Thank you for the explanation, Mr. Canova. I did not mean to offend or to ask you to repeat yourself. I had not read your prior statements about this case.

Please keep up your fantastic coaching and your contributions to our general knowledge of running and training.

Renato, how good do you think the weather has to be for a shot at the WR? The forcast for 9 AM tomorrow is 50 F (10 C) and 4 m/s wind. Better than most marathons, but it seems slightly worse than ideal for a world record, which are usually in perfect conditions.

man I wish renato canova would just not respond to posts about drugs and post stuff about training instead. only a small minority of people are crazy enough to believe the drug conspiracy theories.

adsfadsfadsfs wrote:

only a small minority of people are crazy enough to believe the drug conspiracy theories.

You must be new to Letsrun.

Wow isn't that interesting! Of all these Kenyan runner, only two dopers, and they both tested positive. very impressive.

Galen Rupp Number on Fan wrote:

Wow isn't that interesting! Of all these Kenyan runner, only two dopers, and they both tested positive. very impressive.

Doping testers have a 100% success rate. That is great news.

Quick question for you Renato met a who Kenyan recently ran 62 mins for 1/2 at altitude in Nairobi. what do you reckon that is worth approx at sea level on fast course?

Thank you Mr. Canova for taking the time out of your busy schedule to write this.

Would love to see Kipchoge take the race. He's an amazing athlete. Funny to think he's 2 years younger than Mo Farah! And he beat Mo in an indoor two mile in 2012, as I recall.