Mo Farah told us today he thinks he could have run 12:45 in his prime.... Agree or disagree?

I think 12:45 is about reasonable, but think he might have struggled getting down to 1:44.5 in prime off 5/10k training.

I think what a lot of people are not considering is this possible scenario:

Farah knows, or at least suspects, that the times of Bekele, Geb and Komen were set either when there was no test for EPO or were able to benefit from its use and avoid detection ( prior to the blood passport and random testing in Kenya or Ethiopia). No one has remotely approached their times in the last decade, and it's probably down to doping.

Even if Farah has been operating within a 'grey area' under Salazar, and as a fellow Brit I do have my suspicions about his career trajectory and all the red flags, there is no doubt that it was far more likely that Geb, Bekele and Komen were in a position to abuse PEDs for far more gain. Unfortunately, we'll never know for certain. If it could ever be proved that those 3 doped and Mo was clean (i e. did nothing illegal) then for sure Farah's achievements are the more impressive.

Based on actual facts and what they all achieved, then I'd have to put Geb and Bekele above Farah. But it is naive of many posters on here to basically call out Farah as a drug cheat and that Geb and Bekele are greater down to world records, without even mentioning or considering that the latter two's times are drug fuelled, and as a result, unapproachable. Thus Farah was sensible to chase the medals instead, and for that alone he deserves credit and to be in the discussion for GOAT.

Concerning this discussion, are we not going mention the pre-EPO test/biological passport era circa mid 1990s-2000s?

LetsRun.com wrote:

Here is the all-time list. 12:45 would place him #4 all time.

1 12:37.35 Kenenisa Bekele ETH 13.06.82 1 Hengelo 31.05.2004

2 12:39.36 Haile Gebrselassie ETH 18.04.73 1 Helsinki 13.06.1998

3 12:39.74 Daniel Komen KEN 17.05.76 1 Bruxelles 22.08.1997

4 12:46.53 Eliud Kipchoge KEN 05.11.84 1 Roma 02.07.2004

5 12:46.81 Dejen Gebremeskel ETH 24.11.89 1 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

6 12:47.04 Sileshi Sihine ETH 29.01.83 2 Roma 02.07.2004

7 12:47.53 Hagos Gebrhiwet ETH 11.05.94 2 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

8 12:48.64 Isiah Koech KEN 19.12.93 3 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

9 12:48.66 Issac Songok KEN 25.04.84 2 Zürich 18.08.2006

10 12:48.77 Yenew Alamirew ETH 27.05.90 4 Saint-Denis 06.07.2012

As many have said, while Mo Farah could have possibly run faster, I think the same is probably true of most of the guys on this list. There's always a slightly better day, weather, training, etc. I don't think Farah went for it as frequently as some of these guys. But I do think he was probably capable of 12:45 in the right conditions. His 10K PR converts to a 12:50ish 5K (which is faster than his PR) and his 1500m time converts to something faster than 12:45 (I'm getting nonsense results). So I definitely think 12:45 could have been doable for him under normal conditions.

The Angel of Death wrote:

Concerning this discussion, are we not going mention the pre-EPO test/biological passport era circa mid 1990s-2000s?

Don't tip-toe. The fact is that everyone who has run that fast was a doper.

LetsRun.com wrote:

Mo Farah told us today he thinks he could have run 12:45

What's that in akbars per second?

This is why Mo Farah is not the best of all-time.

He was too wussy to attempt a world record.

He probably could have run a 12:45 but we will never know.

His PR doesn't even put him in the top 20 of all time

I guess it depends on what people care about.

I mean Isaiah Koech can always come back at Farah and say My best is better than your best.

Championship racing style is lame and boring, I wish more of the men ran like men. Girls nowadays are more interesting to watch because they aren't as wussy, they will take risks, run fast times and put themselves out there. Something Farah never was willing to do.

This is why Bekele is indisputably the best ever! He did it all!

Heck I'd take Komen any day over Farah

Backwards looking wrote:

rojo wrote:

But for Farah, he wanted the global championships and for good reason. In a non-third world country, people are going to be paying big attention and big bucks for the championships. For an African runner like Geb, there might be more money in the WRs.

But it's hard to run 12:46 in early July and then be ready to roll at Worlds. And it's hard to double at Worlds and have anything psychologically or mentally left for a WR.

I think people are crazy if they don't think Farah could have run faster at 5000. I certainly do. But since he didn't, I'm going to hold it against him in the GOAT debates. Nothing was stopping him from doing in in 2014 except a huge London payday.

Stop defending this drug cheat

Prove he's a drug cheat then. Go ahead. Actual proof.

kimani wrote:

Hate on him all you want, he is probably the most famous distance runner ever, way more random people know of him than KB or Geb or Viren or Nurmi, maybe Ryun and Bannister are/were close.

I assure you, outside the US, far few people know who Ryun is compared to Geb, Bekele, El Guerrouj or Tergat, not to mention historic greats like Nurmi.

Farah ran as much and as fast as he had to. The 10,000m from London should leave little doubt that he could have often run faster, but there was no need to. He would not claim to have a 12:45 PB, but when asked, he gave what sounded like an honest and realistic guess.

Let's keep in mind that he said 12:45, not 12:35, he clearly wasn't as fast as Geb or Bekele were in the late 1990s and early 2000s, at the height of the EPO era.

Deanouk wrote:

Based on actual facts and what they all achieved, then I'd have to put Geb and Bekele above Farah. But it is naive of many posters on here to basically call out Farah as a drug cheat and that Geb and Bekele are greater down to world records, without even mentioning or considering that the latter two's times are drug fuelled, and as a result, unapproachable. Thus Farah was sensible to chase the medals instead, and for that alone he deserves credit and to be in the discussion for GOAT.

Hi Deano, for sure anything you have written is correct. Clearly I just can speak for myself. Many times on this bord I have written that it's impossible to seriously rank Farah ahead of Gebrselassie and Bekele. For sure this is just based on the actual facts which we have: the races they ran, the titles and medals they won, the times they achieved... And here both the Ethiopians careers are much more impressive than Farah's - for me this is not debatable. I clearly have not at all valued the possibility that one, two or all three of them have used illegal methods - and if so, which methods - to achieve their results. We will not get an answer then.

I have followed Gebrselassie's career from his first big achievement (double Gold at the '92 World Juniors) until his last Marathon races a few years ago really very closely for more than 20 years. I spoke to him and also to Jos Hermens and for me they clearly were "good ones". Until a few years ago I never ever thought Gebrselassie might have used illegel methods (might have been naive). For sure this has changed in the last years. But still, we don't know this and maybe never will.

reed wrote:

Mo could still improve his GOAT standing on the roads. I'd rather see him go run 58:xx for a half than go and run 12:47 or something.

How fast of a marathon would he have to run to be considered better than Geb? I'd say something like 2:03:20s

Around there but I don't see him ever going under 2:05.

The biggest reason, as already stated above is Mo could run 12:45 and LOSE. If you look at the all-time 5k list, the top three were so good that running all out, they could run away from everyone else in the world. Mo in his prime wasn't that good, as all the Mo detractors like to point out. Trying to run away from a world class field simply for the sake of a fast time would 9 times out of 10 lead to a loss.

reed wrote:

Mo could still improve his GOAT standing on the roads. I'd rather see him go run 58:xx for a half than go and run 12:47 or something.

How fast of a marathon would he have to run to be considered better than Geb? I'd say something like 2:03:20s

I agree with you 100%

I rather see Mo run 58.25 than him running 12.47

Sounds about right. Give or take. Not much point in saying that, but fair enough. Actions speak louder than words and all that.

Devil Dog wrote:

Don't tip-toe. The fact is that everyone who has run that fast was a doper.

Quiet; people don't like to talk about stuff like that here...it's too upsetting to many who idolize these athletes. 😁

Stink Test For Pre-ABP Results wrote:

Devil Dog wrote:

Don't tip-toe. The fact is that everyone who has run that fast was a doper.

Quiet; people don't like to talk about stuff like that here...it's too upsetting to many who idolize these athletes. 😁

Yep esp when you accuse Bekele and Geb

peeps around here go berserk lmao

800ftw. wrote:

famous american clock cleaner wrote:

well, what was stopping him

Listen, only hobby joggers care about improving their PBs to the absolute limit. Farah has run 3:2x, 12:5x, 26:4x and 59:xx. They are good PBs. He has many titles to back up his career. He really doesn't need to prove anything.

This. I would take 3:30 and Olympic Gold over 3:28 and no medals. No one cares if you ran 12:49 or 12:53, they care if you won a gold medal.

Agree that he would have struggled to get under 1:45 and no way he could run 47 for the 400. I'd be surprised if he could run 23.0 from a standing start

Watch that 12:37 5000m race of Bekele's on Youtube, it is unreal. 1K splits - 2:33, 2:32, 2:31, 2:30 2:29.......60.58 per lap average.

Don't think we will se that time touched in a long time.

AGREED.the kenenisa bekele pain cave is on display in that race and it's smooth and strong.go out and run some 200's at 30-31 seconds and understand how impressive 12:37 is4:03 pace

broken arrow wrote:

Watch that 12:37 5000m race of Bekele's on Youtube, it is unreal. 1K splits - 2:33, 2:32, 2:31, 2:30 2:29.......60.58 per lap average.

Don't think we will se that time touched in a long time.