NXN - A case for why individuals should not be at a TEAM race

Ps. The regular season majority of runners are on a team. Why should championship be different?

Another Option wrote:

With results being automated, I would like to see every meet scored as parallel dual meets. The team with the best overall record wins. There's already too much emphasis on time.

Team A : 25 - 0

Team B: 24 - 1

Team C: 23 - 2

...

It puts the emphasis back on racing man-for-man.

It really puts the emphasis on have 3 really good runners rather than having a solid 5th man. Not really sure if that is better or worse.

Personally I like the idea that you credit (or penalized) for every person in the race.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Agreed. Cross Country should be a team sport. I would be 100% in favor of this being established at all levels and no longer having individuals at championships.

Shut up. Running is an individual sport. The team scoring thing is just made up.

If you had two separate races (individual & team) it would make the team race more exciting to watch (and race in). The one problem would be the runners who qualify for both. I imagine they would choose to run in the team race.

I'm sure it wouldn't have mattered for Brie Oakley who was in the race yesterday, but for Casey Clinger and Brody Hasty I am sure that they would prefer to have those top individuals to compete with mixed into the team race.

From the Farm wrote:

Have an individual race. Have a team race.

I know running is different. You either need to:

1) All runners count.

2) Put individuals in their own race.

Either way ever runner should count!

2nd team point in 20th is why this needs to happen!

What about the girl who finished in the top 5 AND was a team scorer? Which race does she go in? #YourSystemWontWork #MajorFlaw #IndividualsShouldPickFootLocker

Not in Orlando wrote:

You are correct but that does nor meet the Nike agenda. Nike wants to bury Footlocker.

If Nike wanted to bury Footlocker, they'd create, and heavily promote, a separate individual race.

Personally, I didn't even bother to watch this year. It seems that NXN was originally started to be a team championship. With all of the individuals, it's simply not possible to follow the team competition during the race. Not everyone has to agree, but for me, I would rather see an individual championship and a team race. I like having Footlocker be the individual championship and NXN being the team championship. I realize that there will be times when a top individual will be on a very good team, but there really is no "perfect" scenario.

onceafastcat wrote:

Watching a race without the best you'd be in the minority that's for sure. People pay to see the Rock Stars usually not the opening act!

You just don't get it. It is a team sport. The best *teams* are the "Rock Stars."

Try a battle of the bands where a crappy band doesn't make the finals but has a great guitarist. Do you want that guy soloing between bands in the final? No.

Lenny Leonard wrote:

From the Farm wrote:

Have an individual race. Have a team race.

In the NBA if the MVP's team doesn't make the finals he doesn't get to compete as an individual.

I know running is different. You either need to:

1) All runners count.

2) Put individuals in their own race.

Either way ever runner should count!

2nd team point in 20th is why this needs to happen!

This guy gets it.

The individual race would be the "All-Star" race. Put the best X number of teams out there

That would be awful. You can't put the best individuals in their own race. So at NCAA xc Tiernan wins that by a ton and Cheserek wins the team race by a ton and we wonder, "who would have won if they raced each other?"

Ruth Wysocki wrote:

Personally, I didn't even bother to watch this year. It seems that NXN was originally started to be a team championship. With all of the individuals, it's simply not possible to follow the team competition during the race. Not everyone has to agree, but for me, I would rather see an individual championship and a team race. I like having Footlocker be the individual championship and NXN being the team championship. I realize that there will be times when a top individual will be on a very good team, but there really is no "perfect" scenario.

I don't really pay much attention to high school stuff and haven't for years, outside of phenom track performances, so I've never really paid attention to NXN. But wasn't the whole point of it that it is Team Nationals?!?! There is already individual nationals at Footlocker. I mean I get that Nike wants to take over nationals so they aren't just going to limit themselves to a Team Nationals, but since that was the original point of the whole thing and there is already an individual nationals with a long history, individuals at NXN seems kinda silly. The point of it is Team Nationals, so get rid of the individuals and keep it a team race. I guess I'd heard of individuals running it before which never really made sense to me but I thought that was a very small part of it, like for top runners who wanted to say they won a national title by getting two shots at it, and never realized that the individuals had taken over from the team aspect. I mean if the 5th scoring point is 30th-something place or whatever it was, well that just doesn't make sense given Footlocker is the individual nationals race.

gahuga wrote:

Lenny Leonard wrote:

Agreed. Cross Country should be a team sport. I would be 100% in favor of this being established at all levels and no longer having individuals at championships.

Shut up. Running is an individual sport. The team scoring thing is just made up.

Correct. It's not like one guy on your team throws the ball to another who catches it. Everyone just runs and nothing one guy does really affects another guy.

rojo wrote:

Lenny Leonard wrote:

This guy gets it.

The individual race would be the "All-Star" race. Put the best X number of teams out there

That would be awful. You can't put the best individuals in their own race. So at NCAA xc Tiernan wins that by a ton and Cheserek wins the team race by a ton and we wonder, "who would have won if they raced each other?"

Thank you!!!! Legit was thinking this the whole time while reading.

A true national xc championship would simply invite the large school team champ from each state and limit each team to five runners. Run it the second or third weekend in November at a place like Bloomington, Indiana or the Farm at KU. 250 runners, every runner scores. Simple and no need to compete with Footlocker in terms of naming an individual champ.

She runs with her team. You have two races and crown a team champion and an individual champion. Why won't it work?

MajorFlaw wrote:

From the Farm wrote:

Have an individual race. Have a team race.

I know running is different. You either need to:

1) All runners count.

2) Put individuals in their own race.

Either way ever runner should count!

2nd team point in 20th is why this needs to happen!

What about the girl who finished in the top 5 AND was a team scorer? Which race does she go in? #YourSystemWontWork #MajorFlaw #IndividualsShouldPickFootLocker

rojo wrote:

Lenny Leonard wrote:

This guy gets it.

The individual race would be the "All-Star" race. Put the best X number of teams out there

That would be awful. You can't put the best individuals in their own race. So at NCAA xc Tiernan wins that by a ton and Cheserek wins the team race by a ton and we wonder, "who would have won if they raced each other?"

Well for one thing, if there were a separate individual championship (Which I never brought up BTW), Cheserek would race Tiernan. Why wouldn't he? I don't think anyone would want that to exclude runners whose teams made the team championship.

Then how about we just not hold an individual race at all?

Explaining cross country to someone who has never competed in it sounds insane:

"Well 31 teams qualify, and another 25+ schools are represented in individual qualifiers. So you will see 50+ different schools out there, but about half of them are not factored into the championship AT ALL, except that it is possible for a runner from a non-qualified team to win the individual title. That's important, but his position and the position of non-team runners has no importance in crowning the champion school."

What would be better is that we create a regional format that weeds out the teams that wouldn't be competitive, so that when the big day comes, even a casual fan can tune in and follow it.

Okay, lets agree to this. For you people hung up on your team thing that's great. I'll continue to run from spot to spot to view the "Rock Stars". For the HS band fanatics enjoy your music in the shade with your lemonade! LOL Now let's get Cross Country into the Winter Olympics and count every place and move on...

Cross country has always been both a team and individual sport. This mixture is fantastic because you get the best of both worlds. You get the chance to see which runner is truly the best (at least on a given day). You also get a chance to see how a group can be a true team where every runner in the race is important.

Sure this combination is confusing to someone who has no idea how the sport works. So what. Fans of the sport get it and that is what matters. My 87 year old mom only knows individual places until a team score is displayed. So what, if we pulled individuals out she would still need to wait to hear a team score (as would most others).

It would be worse to use time vs place in xc scoring. That would even be more confusing.

The nike meet is a fantastic experience for both teams and individuals. Let the kids enjoy it.

The argument for not letting individuals participate is probably something that only coaches/runners/parents of strong teams prefer. At the high school level you have the high end programs that are overly sophisticated and structured. Good for them but why not let the kid who has little coaching and support give it a shot. Ultimately the sport allows athletes to show how good they are. Both individuals and teams should get the chance.

Back to the OP's statement... The problem with NXN right now is the "top teams" suck when compared to top individuals. Maybe if they let the Region individuals (expanded to 7) be a team and give them a chance to win as a team.