Alright why did SARA Hall bomb at LA?

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  • dkdhfsivn
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 1:19pm CDT
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    There's been plenty of talk about why Ryan DNF'd (again) last weekend. But reading the LRC Weekly Recap got me thinking about Sara: why did she run so poorly? She has a coach, she has been racing well this past year, and isn't known to be a total headcase.

    She came through 25km at 2:33 pace, which is totally reasonable based on her 1:10:50 half marathon at the US champs. She didn't go out too fast either, with all of her first few 5ks around 18:00. Even if you factor in the heat, McMillan's calculator says that her HM converts to a 2:29. So granting four minutes for weather seems reasonable. But she blew the %^&* up and staggered home with 19:57, 23:32, and 23:43 for her last complete 5k segments.

    What happened? Does Magness just not know how to coach the marathon? Is she just not a marathoner?
  • what the?
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 1:22pm CDT
    re: dkdhfsivn
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    She is coached by Steve Magness??? There's the problem, the guy is not really a coach, he's just fooling himself and everyone else. His head is all over the place.

    Why did Sara and Ryan bomb? Simple, lack of fitness.
  • ChuckCJohnsonTCOT
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 1:25pm CDT
    re: dkdhfsivn
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    Magness is like his former mentor AlSal -- he can't coach the marathon
  • Lorenzo the Magnificent
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 1:33pm CDT
    re: dkdhfsivn
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    Has she said anything? Sometimes a bonk of that magnitude is due to fueling problems. Maybe her monthlies snuck up on her and she had cramps. Maybe she was shooting for a time, saw it wasn't going to happen, and jogged in. Maybe she was poorly coached. Maybe she was well coached, but didn't execute. Maybe our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ felt she needed a lesson in humility. I don't know.
  • krimps
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 2:21pm CDT
    re: Lorenzo the Magnificent
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    she had cramps

    https://twitter.com/SaraHall3/status/577197606927011840
  • Barrister
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 2:58pm CDT
    re: krimps
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    Based on the weather, it is likely (but not certain) her cramps were caused by a salt/electrolyte imbalance. Toni Reavis commented early on she appeared to be having difficulty in getting her fluid bottles and taking water at various points in the race. Her cramps could have been a result of improper training or other potential causes, but considering the weather, she was likely sweating out salt, potassium, etc. faster than she was replacing it, hence the cramps. I saw her finish on TV and she looked like she was in agony as she slowly made her way in.
  • asdfdsfds
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 3:06pm CDT
    re: Barrister
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    Barrister wrote:

    Based on the weather, it is likely (but not certain) her cramps were caused by a salt/electrolyte imbalance. Toni Reavis commented early on she appeared to be having difficulty in getting her fluid bottles and taking water at various points in the race. Her cramps could have been a result of improper training or other potential causes, but considering the weather, she was likely sweating out salt, potassium, etc. faster than she was replacing it, hence the cramps. I saw her finish on TV and she looked like she was in agony as she slowly made her way in.

    Electrolytes have nothing to do with cramping.
  • CGee
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 3:47pm CDT
    re: krimps
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    She had a Central Governor malfunction.
  • ummmm...really dude
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 3:58pm CDT
    re: asdfdsfds
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    asdfdsfds wrote:

    Barrister wrote:

    Based on the weather, it is likely (but not certain) her cramps were caused by a salt/electrolyte imbalance. Toni Reavis commented early on she appeared to be having difficulty in getting her fluid bottles and taking water at various points in the race. Her cramps could have been a result of improper training or other potential causes, but considering the weather, she was likely sweating out salt, potassium, etc. faster than she was replacing it, hence the cramps. I saw her finish on TV and she looked like she was in agony as she slowly made her way in.

    Electrolytes have nothing to do with cramping.


    Please, do tell.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/538033-muscle-cramps-spasms-from-potassium-magnesium/
  • Used to be Rono
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 4:10pm CDT
    re: asdfdsfds
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    asdfdsfds wrote:

    Barrister wrote:

    Based on the weather, it is likely (but not certain) her cramps were caused by a salt/electrolyte imbalance. Toni Reavis commented early on she appeared to be having difficulty in getting her fluid bottles and taking water at various points in the race. Her cramps could have been a result of improper training or other potential causes, but considering the weather, she was likely sweating out salt, potassium, etc. faster than she was replacing it, hence the cramps. I saw her finish on TV and she looked like she was in agony as she slowly made her way in.

    Electrolytes have nothing to do with cramping.

    hahahahahaaaaa....
  • agc5k
    registered
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 4:52pm CDT
    re: Barrister
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    Barrister wrote:

    Based on the weather, it is likely (but not certain) her cramps were caused by a salt/electrolyte imbalance. Toni Reavis commented early on she appeared to be having difficulty in getting her fluid bottles and taking water at various points in the race. Her cramps could have been a result of improper training or other potential causes, but considering the weather, she was likely sweating out salt, potassium, etc. faster than she was replacing it, hence the cramps. I saw her finish on TV and she looked like she was in agony as she slowly made her way in.

    Its her first marathon, so of course she's gonna be inexperienced taking in fluids and hydrating. Flanagan's first marathon she only took fluids once.
  • Mad Lonely Man
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 5:41pm CDT
    re: Barrister
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    Girls have cramps all the time. They get out of class for cramps, out of selective services for cramps, out of jury duty for cramps, out of work for cramps, out of chores for cramps and out of sex for cramps. ALL THE TIME!

    Cramps, cramps, cramps. It's all I ever hear about these days!

    Get a heating pad already!
  • Barrister
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 6:04pm CDT
    re: agc5k
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    agc5k wrote "Its her first marathon, so of course she's gonna be inexperienced taking in fluids and hydrating. Flanagan's first marathon she only took fluids once."

    Sure if you don't prepare. It isn't that hard to practice grabbing a fluid bottle in training. Some elites practice taking them off tables, while others have coaches hand them to them. Most folks don't think about it until they are in the race, hence the awkwardness you often see. To be well prepared you need to think about how much fluid, gels, etc. you will take in during the race. You can base this off your training and how you did testing different quanities on long or MP runs. Some folks need more, some need less.
  • sarabeisantarosa
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 6:58pm CDT
    re: dkdhfsivn
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    She will learn from the troubles in LA, and set a 15 minute PR next time she goes the full 42195 meters.
  • fluid man
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 7:04pm CDT
    re: Barrister
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    Barrister wrote:

    agc5k wrote "Its her first marathon, so of course she's gonna be inexperienced taking in fluids and hydrating. Flanagan's first marathon she only took fluids once."

    Sure if you don't prepare. It isn't that hard to practice grabbing a fluid bottle in training. Some elites practice taking them off tables, while others have coaches hand them to them. Most folks don't think about it until they are in the race, hence the awkwardness you often see. To be well prepared you need to think about how much fluid, gels, etc. you will take in during the race. You can base this off your training and how you did testing different quanities on long or MP runs. Some folks need more, some need less.

    Looks like quad cramps and dealing with heat issues. Having talked to Steve a few months before at a coaching clinic, I know they were doing a lot of fluid practice and some downhill running to get used to the hills. So it seemed like they were covering their bases.

    http://www.flotrack.org/video/763988-Steve-Magness-proud-of-Sara-Hall-gutting-it-out-in-LA

    Just a bad day it seems like and she hadn't had a bad day the whole training cycle. These things happen in the marathon, especially under tough conditions even if you're well prepared.

    Maybe instead of coming from altitude, you'd be better off coming from somewhere warm. But hindsight is 20/20 and until the week of, no one expected really bad heat.
  • Coach Cookie
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 8:22pm CDT
    re: dkdhfsivn
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    How long until Carl Lewis makes Magness a full-time blogger?!
  • fsafasfsasfasf
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 8:28pm CDT
    re: asdfdsfds
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    WRONG.

    Exercise-associated muscle cramps (EAMCs): Consumption of a carbohydrate-electrolyte beverage before and during exercise in a hot environment may delay the onset of EAMCs, thereby allowing participants to exercise longer.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1150229/
  • asdfadsfadsf
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 8:45pm CDT
    re: ummmm...really dude
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    ummmm...really dude wrote:

    asdfdsfds wrote:

    Barrister wrote:

    Based on the weather, it is likely (but not certain) her cramps were caused by a salt/electrolyte imbalance. Toni Reavis commented early on she appeared to be having difficulty in getting her fluid bottles and taking water at various points in the race. Her cramps could have been a result of improper training or other potential causes, but considering the weather, she was likely sweating out salt, potassium, etc. faster than she was replacing it, hence the cramps. I saw her finish on TV and she looked like she was in agony as she slowly made her way in.

    Electrolytes have nothing to do with cramping.


    Please, do tell.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/538033-muscle-cramps-spasms-from-potassium-magnesium/


    Nice source loser. Try real science next time.

    http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/43/6/401.short
  • asdfasdfds
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 8:48pm CDT
    re: fsafasfsasfasf
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    fsafasfsasfasf wrote:

    WRONG.

    Exercise-associated muscle cramps (EAMCs): Consumption of a carbohydrate-electrolyte beverage before and during exercise in a hot environment may delay the onset of EAMCs, thereby allowing participants to exercise longer.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1150229/

    Literally the next sentence in the abstract you just quoted there is:

    "However, it appears that dehydration and electrolyte loss are not the sole causes of EAMCs, because 69% of the subjects experienced EAMCs when they were hydrated and supplemented with electrolytes."

    Cramps were in fact MORE COMMON in the gatorade-fueled trial than the hypohydration trial! 9/13 vs 7/13!?! Are you completely illiterate or something? This study makes a better case for NOT hydrating to avoid cramps!
  • fsafasfsasfasf
    4 years ago 03/18/2015 8:51pm CDT
    re: asdfasdfds
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    Your ignorance is stunning.

    -- dehydration and electrolyte loss are not the sole causes of EAMCs, because 69%

    Therefore 31% yes, and your hypothesis of NO impact is WRONG.