Yes there have been other threads.
But this is just terrible for high school running, which is at its best. Thinking about themselves, not the competitive nature of the sport.
Track is even worse, don't even get me started.
But the sinister truth is that the best compromise isn't even a good compromise.
Nike sponsors Footlocker, adding teams to footlocker, still 4 regionals.
Like I said, it's the best compromise which isn't even a good compromise.
Surprise me.
Sorry not happening
To the OP: I agree. Why bother? It's hard to change powerful companies.
Top 10 from nxn get an auto bid to FL?
Do you realize what you just said? "Nike sponsors foot locker". That would be like suggesting "Nike sponsors adidas" haha. They are two seperate, self-interested companies. I'm no expert, but I feel that nike could pay foot locker to stop hosting the meet (rather than take it over because I assume since it's nike they would want to continue running it in portland) and have all the top individuals AND teams at the nike meet every year, since athletes with have no where else to go.
The FL vs. Nike question is a good one as the 2 meets are diluting each other but my gripe is the Nike format to begin with. How much fun is it to have FM win the girls meet year after year after year? Southlake boys haven't won but they dominate the south and take up one of the 2 team spots year after year after year. The whole thing is lame. Throw out these "High School" teams - they've already gone through their state meets and had those individual accolades. Form 8 regional teams, hype this region vs. that one, and then you might have something. Something is wrong, and flat out boring, if the same team is winning every year.
Here are my thoughts. Nike merges with USATF Junior Olympics. eliminates association qualifying and merges with Nike's regions. Split into two divisions: developmental and championships (keeps the age group structure for the developmental and non invited athletes, and holds a championship race separately). Put footlockers out of business.
Here is my rationale.
1) USATF is the OFFICIAL national championships (non merely a sponsored invitational)
2) NXN is more in keeping with the team spirit of XC
3) I believe it is bad for our sport to be sponsored by a company I specifically as a coach tell my students NOT to shop at (how many of the LRC posters get their shoes from footlocker?)
4) This broadens the base of the post season without watering down the elite end of the spectrum
5) Nike is already sponsoring USATF, why didn't they inculde this in their deal? Would have been fairly easy.
6) merges volunteer resources with USATF for a more well produced event.
I think it is time to end the nostalgia for FL, Nike does a better job.
Footlocker is #1!!!!!!!!!!!
Always will be
Nike does a better job? That clearly shows your lack of experience with either event. Nike is a three day marketing event and footlocker is a three day tribute and pampering of the athletes. Rain and muck annually of Portland can't beat San Diego. No Nike doesn't do a better job.
Nike do odd numbered years and footlocker do even numbered years. Problem solved.
Agree, somewhat, with Virginia coach. High school comp should end with the State meet. Then it should be (if it wasn't such a lame organization - and that is on Hightower) up to USATF to organize National meets for this age-group (Junior Olympics). They could easily tie this in with selecting the National team (age-group juniors for XC, so College age) every other year as well, instead of doing it in February. The age group normally dealt with in HS is Youth in XC (from a world perspective), which then alleviates all the whining about being too old as well.
The NXN meet is an artificial "club" meet anyway. Footlocker has become what it is, because the USATF hasn't the vision to create something that would supplant it. No wonder so few "real" clubs exist, which goes on to hurt post-collegiates unless good enough to get a pro deal out of College (and there are only a handful of those opportunities anyway).
The system is broken, and only USATF (from a national perspective) should be able to change it, as HS federation rules will never allow a "real" HS championship - these are just invitationals (even with qualifying criteria) that aren't really HS meets anyway - just corporate advertising (Nike/Footlocker).
I personally prefer the Footlocker format as it is simple, but individually focused, which denies the team aspect of XC. That FM can win the girls title without a single person being in the top 45 (so not an all-american in the collegiate format), says that something is wrong with the meet. It is trying to be a NCAA clone (although that meet includes plenty of foreigners), but doesn't match it.
Yes, there have been other threads and I've said this before:
FL had the chance to add teams, they didn't want to, they blew it.
Now, we have Nike, which depth wise, FL cannot match, and FL which takes a few of the top runners who aren't on a great team..
The "compromise" is for FL to give in and ask Nike if they can join in and have one, even bigger event.
Keep the regions the way Nike has them- look at the NY Boy's teams- NY should be a region- no question.
Plug speed ratings from NY into the other regions, you will see NYers doing the same or better.
It bugs me that kids choose FL, but for some they see it as the "easier way to Nationals" and San Diego has nicer weather than Portland (but NOT a better course, anymore).
You all do realize that the NXN era has seen the rise of ever more powerful teams and much greater depth among high school runners. I like Footlocker, but it's done far, far less for the overall depth and health of the sport than NXN has. Far, far less.
Why is footlocker easier to get to? It would seem to me that it is actually like seven times more difficult to get to. Please explain.
sefsaefsa wrote:
Why is footlocker easier to get to? It would seem to me that it is actually like seven times more difficult to get to. Please explain.
You are right on this one. To the people who think otherwise think about Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa where it's Footlocker Midwest vs NXN Heartland. Footlocker Midwest is way more difficult to qualify through. Usually the top ten at Footlocker Midwest if not some extremely decorated, dominant state champion they are 9-minute 2 milers and/or 4:09/4:10 milers by the end of their career. If you finish 15th at Midwest, there's a good chance you could have competed for a top 20 spot in the national meet had they accepted 15 qualifiers instead of ten. That's how deep the midwest is.
The best alternative is..............
FOOTLOCKER!!!!
sefsaefsa wrote:
Why is footlocker easier to get to? It would seem to me that it is actually like seven times more difficult to get to. Please explain.
OK- you have a great team, that team will have one or two top runners (from the region). They will go to Nike, this diluting the depth of FL. Many of the top individuals will then choose Nike to race them.
The easy way to see what I mean is just pick a top finisher from one of the Nike regions. Plug him/her into the FL region they would have run in.
A great example is the NY region- because they're competing against one state at Nike and multi states in FL.
FL MAY bring out the best individual but the depth isn't there because of the team runners at Nike.
I coach in NY and my runners feel that going to FL is saying that you're not good enough for Nike.
And what about leaving out both the girls and boys winning teams of the California State meet who were told they "didn't qualify?" Why isn't anyone talking about this? The whole thing is lame because the team thing is already done. Let's stick with Footlocker and find out who the fastest individual is and keep the amazing tradition going.
No one on this board is as outspokenly anti-Footlocker as you. Why is that? Are you actually a coach? I understand preferring one meet over the other, but you're ignoring clear evidence to baselessly back up your own opinions (your "runners" aren't evidence).
runn wrote:
sefsaefsa wrote:Why is footlocker easier to get to? It would seem to me that it is actually like seven times more difficult to get to. Please explain.
OK- you have a great team, that team will have one or two top runners (from the region). They will go to Nike, this diluting the depth of FL. Many of the top individuals will then choose Nike to race them.
The easy way to see what I mean is just pick a top finisher from one of the Nike regions. Plug him/her into the FL region they would have run in.
A great example is the NY region- because they're competing against one state at Nike and multi states in FL.
FL MAY bring out the best individual but the depth isn't there because of the team runners at Nike.
I coach in NY and my runners feel that going to FL is saying that you're not good enough for Nike.
No compromise wrote:
You all do realize that the NXN era has seen the rise of ever more powerful teams and much greater depth among high school runners. I like Footlocker, but it's done far, far less for the overall depth and health of the sport than NXN has. Far, far less.
I think this is correct. FL is a great meet and always will be, but since the onset of NXN we've seen a real boom in the depth of HS running that is translating to growth at every level. Instead of one or two kids in a program having serious post-season goals, the entire program does, and the consequences are clear. After a few years, other teams in the state have to improve if they want a shot at hanging with an NXN-quality program at their state meet.
I think we saw a comparable effect in the NCAA when regionals came onto the scene, rather than direct time qualification. Kids with no realistic expectation of making a final at Nationals can first have the goal of making regionals. Then the next year, making the final, etc, etc. Look at the progression of NCAA times for the 5000 since then, for example.
The decision to hold a national HS championship for teams is a no-brainer. The only thing to be sorted out is scheduling the FL regionals so that top kids on top teams can do both. Or, as suggested by someone already, let the top 10 at NXN run FL. (The NXN meet would be a lot harder qualifying race than any of FL regional meets. Consider that the 3 Montana girls at FL West went 4,5,6 in their NXN regional, one of nine regions, and then went 1,4,6 at FL west, one of only 4 regions. Of course they were probably more focused on the FL meet, but you see the point...)
