LateRunnerPhil - Tinman Training Through Summer to 5k PR in Sep (Goal ~15:30)

I think Phil has chosen to stop posting on this site for his own reasons. I think we oughta respect that. Info is out there if you are really curious.

alexrunsmiles wrote:

...bump?

He ran 7.85 miles two days ago at 7.39 per mile . He called the session ' A new beginning ' .

A new beginning of next injury to come. A hopeless case.

Phil will be back with a vengeance in 2021 when Tinman athletes sweep the trials in the 1500-10k.

What's the point of updating us on someone you call a hopeless case? Schadenfreude? No really, fill me in.

Leave the guy alone. It was one thing when he was here interacting with us and looking for advice. It's another thing when he stops posting altogether and makes his strava private.

I'm trying to say this without garnering him more attention - leave him alone. He clearly does not want to share about his running in this forum right now. I know I know, I can't stop you from reposting stats from Phil's private strava account. That is something you can technically do.

But I can say it's pathetic and intrusive.

' Interacting and looking for advice' . Are you kidding with us? That guy never looked for advice .

He never listened. Just did his stubborn Kamikaze training until breakdown.

I find your invasion of phil's privacy to be unnecessary. I wanted to point out that you are a follower of phil's private strava account, and you had taken the data from that account and reposted it here, likely against phil's wishes. I have now clearly done that.

Unsurprisingly, when faced with this truth, you chose to deploy the (pathetic!) tactic of trying to quibble over minor details about phil's time here. Rather than own up to how intrusive you had been, you decided to try another pathetic move. Anonymous handles are wonderful enablers, amirite?

I have seen Phil posting today. of course he was attacked instantly.

He is a good poster on the site. interesting guy. flawed like many people here, but letsrun is better when he is active than when he is away.

he made a choice for himself wrote:

Anonymous handles are wonderful enablers, amirite?

Pot, kettle, etc. xD

While I disagree with posting private Strava info here, I understand that Phil created the curiosity, the desire to know more and to follow his training.

And after doing this he suddenly ignored many reasonable, friendly, thoughtful posts. He just kept posting on LRC while totally ignoring people who wanted to know how he was doing.

Of course he can do it, but just as you dislike the "updates", some people dislike(d) his rude behavior.

Anyway, I followed his progress eagerly, because he might be able to achieve good results with a bit of a crazy approach.

I don't care about his training or results anymore.

Whilst September is not over, I presume that Phil did not achieve the goal stated in the title of the thread? Did he break 16?

Sorry, I have a history of randomly breaking contact for silly reasons, this time it was because I was unsure how to proceed with my future regarding running.

It started on 7/19 with my 5k TT on the track, 16:18 a good time but I vomitted after and had severe digestion issues during and after the TT.

The next two days I was incredibly hungry all the time, I ate a big pizza each day + a pound of broccoli as side (one time dinner, one time as breakfast) and lots of other stuff. I think I reached 7000 cal on both days (normal was 5-6k). Didn't do any sports during the two days.

Then on 7/22 I went on a short run, I reached 77kg/170 lbs, a weight I haven't had in years and thought I would be slow. But I had a lot of power during the run and was fast. On 7/23, it was the opposite - I was very slow, 9 min/mile and felt terrible. I haven't been on toilet since 3-4 days too. This was the start of the nightmare. I had pain in my lower back. Not as severe as during the stress fracture I had there last year, but it was ALWAYS there. There was not a single sleeping position that worked. I ended up getting insomnia since I couldn't sleep, also had fever and other symptoms. I was awake for over 50+ hours. I felt so bad I seriously considered suicide. My whole body was out of sync. Also extreme headache due to the sleep deprivation. After 1 week I was finally able to go to the toilet and felt better afterwards.

A doctor said it might have been COVID, but I doubt that I would have such strong symptoms. Because the only other time I ran a 16:15 5k, I also got sick 2 days later. There seems to be a connection.

What I realized for myself is, like someone here posted I had a eating disorder. I would always train more and harder, and the way my body responded was by taking in lots of carbs to somehow make it through the training load and make up for a lack of aerobic talent. A 160 lbs person shouldn't need to eat 5000+ kcal a day with just 1-2 hours of training each day (and complete rest otherwise).

I realized I had to change. Since I have many allergies too, I decided to change my diet first. Instead of eating 5 lbs meat each week, I try to eat almost none, except on rare occasions. I also replace pasta and bread with gluten-free products, and dairy (milk, yogurt, etc) with alternative milk options like soy. On top of that, I reduce my training load and intensity.

I started this on 8/1, and since then things have been going well again. No major breakthroughs, just solid, manageable training sessions with more cross-training. Unfortunately, I took 7 days completely off recently because of online poker and trying to make a living there which I shouldn't have done but it refreshed me mentally and really motivated me again.

After the sickness week and the diet change, weight was down to 71kg/156lbs. A track workout later confirmed I didn't lose speed, but my aerobic fitness took a huge hit from all of these breaks and I'm currently rebuilding again. I was close to quit running and give up, but decided to keep going, just a bit more relaxed, less stressed and hopefully with a little bit fewer calories/meals during a day. Also moved to Vienna to maybe be able to train with others again. Strava is also public again, I didn't intend to set it private was experiencing with settings and just forgot. If I wanted privacy, I wouldn't post here in the first place ;) Feel free to watch, but training right now is rather uninteresting.

Let's hope the last months of this year will get me back on track again!

Wow ! LRP eventually taking into account feedbacks from other people with wisdom.

I'm shocked.

Best of luck LRP 2.0 for the upcoming training and PRs

Thank you for the update, Phil.

Best of luck.

Impala31 wrote:

Wow ! LRP eventually taking into account feedbacks from other people with wisdom.

I'm shocked.

Best of luck LRP 2.0 for the upcoming training and PRs

After all the health, nutritional and mental problems this summer training has been going very well again the last few weeks. I moved to Vienna and this change of environment has been useful too.

Since changing my nutrition, I'm getting much better sleep and recover faster again. Weight remains steady at 72kg, which is right in my optimal range (67-75kg). Calorie intake is still high, but there is more healthy fats now, more vegetables and fruits and I cut meat, milk/yogurt, and bread/pasta/pizza almost entirely from my diet.

I ditched swimming for strength training, which I currently do in a gym attending group classes with very good coaches. This helps me mentally, as it was getting draining to swim alone in the pool for 30-60 min like a robot multiple times a week. End of October I will add some higher weight 5x5 lifts, currently it's mostly learning a variety of lifts with lower weight and more reps and focus on form/build overall base strength.

Running wise, I have mostly been running for fun with some low-key workouts thrown in there. Nothing spectacular, but I got a 5k race in 2 days which will show where I'm currently at (did same course last year in 16:28). There is also a 3k track TT available on 9/30, where I could try to get the limit for the indoor 3k championship (9:25), which I already ran solo in training. What I noticed is my easy pace improved again and I feel like I'm getting fitter, even though I just trained "moderately" the last few weeks. But it's hard to say whether it was change in attitude, nutrition changes, sleep changes, or some 3-tiered Tinman workouts just being too taxing on the body. I'll keep you guys updated.

Uni Run - 5k in 16:26 (3:17/k), 2nd place 8s behind an ultrarunner. Was warm, usually a big problem but didn't feel it affected me at all today. Original goal for this race was 3:09/k/15:45 set in the beginning of the thread.

Obviously after all the breaks and sicknesses I had I wasn't expecting a breakthrough race, but it was a good, honest effort running fully within my current abilities. Since I'm eating a bit less carbs and cut a lot of suboptimal food options from my diet, and train less intense, I noticed some changes.

- I had no motivation to kick at the end - some guy had a 10s lead pretty much from the start, and I never felt like trying to catch him even when I have the ability. Doing 5x1k each week at 5k pace, and very hard 200s or hills afterwards, might have given me the very strong kick in races last year. Maybe it's the all-out hill sprints I got rid of missing. Or maybe it's the Next% not being a good shoe for kicks/fast finishes (unlikely, ran fast 200s/400s with them). One "problem" is that 200s in 30s or 30s hill sprints don't feel hard anymore.

- Breathing was rather heavy. I did not feel any pain during the race, and my stomach/metabolism was much better than during the time-trials or earlier races where I dry heaved at the end. Probably one of the easiest races effort-wise. It seems that mentally I wasn't able to race well, either I'm afraid of getting sick again/running my body into the ground, or I was cautious since it was my first race after a longer break due to sickness.

- Setup of the race was not ideal. One guy hammering the first 500m and creating a 10s GAP, I thought the race was lost and ran behind him 10s all the time, even when he got a bit slower. He clearly destroyed me with racing tactics, I'm still a newb to that regard. I do best on the track where I can force myself to accurately hit every 200m, or in a big race with many competitors where I hang on and also have a lot of people in front to catch. I didn't want to kick 400m out or 1k out because it's taxing and I wasn't sure if it would be enough. I had no idea who that runner was, and was scared he is a middle-distance runner who could easily respond. Afterwards we are always smarter. Maybe I could break 16 and even 15:45 with a proper pacer, but right now it's just speculation.

Planning to join a club, and do a 3000m track race next week (need to get sub 9:25 for an indoor limit which I already ran solo on the track).

Training wise, my times didn't improve yet, but I also didn't have a perfect race yet. Maybe I applied Tinman training wrong, or maybe it doesn't work well for me and I need more speed or fast running. 3k next week, 10k the week after, then base phase for 2 months and then indoor.

Any tips/comments/help appreciated, also if I should consider changing the program or keep going, with improved nutrition and strength training and wait for the perfect race.

your race based on Strava is a downhill 5k?

"Also had the best Austrian female runner shortly behind me for the first 4k, she is very good."

But Phil is better, of course.

Diva45 wrote:

your race based on Strava is a downhill 5k?

Not sure where it shows that, it's pancake flat xD

It was on the same street Kipchoge did INEOS 1:59.

Phil, do this. Trust me, it works... it’s the best way to “keep the ball rolling.”

I would replace the CV workout with hills/fartlek but apart from that, I totally agree with this poster's suggestion.