This will blow your mind. Proof that no one really has any idea what they are talking about with Covid-19

First, this "no one knows what they are talking about" is dangerous. This virus is months old and not acting completely like other variants. So yes things will change as new information is learned. That is a difference between science and dogma--the latter never changes despite contradictory evidence.

Nicotine might be a contributing factor, but I would caution against reductionism of this nature (reducing a complex thing down to 1 thing). There may be other factors that those smokers have that reduce their risk.

So, it is great to explore treatment and prevention options. But also note, they are using nicotine patches for dosing not recommending folks light up.

Luv2Run wrote:

But also note, they are using nicotine patches for dosing not recommending folks light up.

They could also just feed them lots of eggplant.

"I think old people with underlying health issues are less likely to smoke than healthy old people.

It's a correlation. And it's the only logical explanation."

The most logical explanation is smokers are not disclosing they are smokers.

rojo wrote:

First we were told this was no big deal. We should ride the subway in NYC and go to restaurants in China town in San Fran and definitely don't buy masks as they won't help. Now restaurants are closed and we are told to shelter in place and we are required to wear masks.

Only trump said that.

The messaging from actual experts has been very consistent. They've always said it was dangerous and a big deal. In fact, they were screaming it. They also have always said that a shut down was coming. They didn't think it was necessary right away, it only makes sense once you hit a certain spread. Doing it too soon just means you are shut down for longer.

They've also been very clear that there was a lot to be learned about the disease and that studies were needed to find risk factors. They suspected risk factors might be things like asthma, heart disease, high blood pressure, obesity, e.t.c. But they've said all along those are guesses based on other related viruses.

Now we are getting a bit of data, so recommendations become more nuanced.

Your post is dangerous ("experts don't know what they're talking about"). It leads to mistrust and idiots protesting the shut down. Your behavior is putting people's lives at risk. I think you have proven yourself to genuinely care about people's well being, this post is an embarrassment to you.

rojo wrote:

It seems like the one thing that is constant about Covid-19 is that clearly no one knows what they are talking about it when they present themselves as an expert.

The Guardian report is based on an apparently legitimate source. But to draw the conclusion -- based on changing advice -- that everyone is equally ignorant seems pretty reductive. The good thing is that people really are learning new things about this novel virus. The conclusion shouldn't be to tune out, but rather to stay tuned.

"The messaging from actual experts has been very consistent."

Not true at all. Go look at what the head of NYC medical (I forget her title) said publicly. There's probably a video around. She said in February to ride the subways and go to "your favorite restaurant". What if I want to go to a restaurant that's not my favorite?

Rojo, if you or a loved one get sick for ANY reason, you all had better stay the f*ck out of the hospital.

Pretty obvious really, most of the heavy smokers die already by the age that cv19 kills most, or have given up. There are very few smokers shoved away in care homes etc.

I updated the initial post as some were wondering why i was linking to the Daily Mail. I found a similar article in The Telegraph. I also found an article from two days ago where the FDA is warning Americans that smoking can make you more likely to get Covid and die from it.

"“People who smoke cigarettes may be at increased risk of infection with the virus that causes Covid-19, and may have worse outcomes from Covid-19,” wrote the FDA.

Yet in France, they are wondering the opposite.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-21/fda-now-says-smokers-may-have-higher-risk-of-catching-covid-19

Lifelong smoking cuts down 10 years on longevity, while if you stop smoking at age 70, that still cuts off a few years from life expectancy at that point, which is still 18 years for non-smokers.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130831110923.htm

Maybe smokers are less likely to get the annual flu shot. And this thing is an adverse secondary cytokine storm from the annual flu shot?

Why this theory? Nursing homes have near 100% annual flu shot coverage. They are the hardest hit.

Ok, you could say nursing homes have sicker older people. True.

We know nothing. But if the flu shot theory were correct, you know they'd cover that up.

Could be similar to this? We don't know. We should study it though. The problem is big pharma won't allow these studies because questioning the annual flu shot is anathema. Some brave researcher should see if most serious coronavirus cases also had the flu shot.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2010/04/new-canadian-studies-suggest-seasonal-flu-shot-increased-h1n1-risk

These guys know what they're talking about. Prove me wrong.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9883547

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Started off your post with a bald-faced lie:

Pelosi: “We do want to say to people, come to Chinatown, here we are … come join us”

I didn't read your blather after that.

Medical "professionals" will use any excuse to paint smoking as a dangerous activity. You can go to the doctor for any reason at all and they will turn it into something about smoking.

I cut my finger trimming a tree branch and needed a few stitches. Doc told me smoking impacted my hand eye coordination and was responsible for the accident. "You should quit smoking or you might cut your finger again" he said.

I'll hypothesize that the chemicals in cigarette smoke are so toxic they can kill the virus.

Destroy the virus ( the virus is not a life form).

It only blows your mind if youre an Ivy League grad that doesn’t understand the concepts of proof or causality.

NYC (smoking ban), international cruises/travel, retirement homes... all things that select for higher income demographics (less smoking) and have various restrictions on smoking.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32293753/?from_term=smoking+covid-19&from_pos=2

Are you familiar with hormesis, Rojo? Maybe it’s helping along those lines.

Alternatively, small doses of nicotine have been shown to help asthma so it could be this effect. If so I’d guess chewing gum is the better option.