Can run a good 3K, but 5K I'm toast. Any thoughts?

Even 8km

Hello poplarjake! With my long experience I of course see fast what your problem is.))

I ran myself similar times as you: 1500m 3:58 , 3000m 8:20 and 5000m at 14:20 on 50-65 miles

per week. 1) You do the wrong length of reps when running maxVO2 5 K race pace intervals.

You should do more stuff like 200-600 m reps and many of them.....and you should use the 5 k race pace you actually have up to date, not a goal pace! ( And Jack Daniels VDOT is the best one to follow! )

2) You also need LT:s ( lactate threshold intervals) at correct pace that match your maxVO2 -pace to get a better threshold.

3) You need to run your easy distance mostly at your aerobic power pace( Long Steady Distance, ca 70-75 % of MHR) to get the most effect of it.

If you like me to coach you(for free) you just agree and then I can coach you directly live here or at Strava if you prefer and have it. You get in contact at email :

magic@coachjs.se

or just contact me at facebook or Twitter.

-The Magic Wizard - :)

Had the exact same problem in college. As others have stated, try to negative split. You should feel decent six laps in, not wondering whether the 7th lap might be your last lap. Quality long runs helped me, 12-15 miles with the last few miles pretty quick (not just counting the miles with easy long runs - however, this takes a lot out of you so be careful doing these every week). Also longer intervals with change of pace on the last lap, or a spike rep. in the workout. Something like 3*1600 with first 1200 at 5k pace and last 400 hard, with a very easy 400 in between (3:00 or so). Example of a spike rep. workout, 6*800 at 5k pace with 2:00 jog rest, maybe the 4th and 6th are closer to 3K. Finish both workouts with a small amount of faster work, like 3*300 @ 800 with 400 jog or 4*200 @ 800 with 200 jog.

It’s scary how similar your PRs are to mine. I ran 3:59 for 1500, 8:32 for 3k, 14:47 for 5k and 30:45 for 10k. Those all line up almost exactly on the VDOT chart. After college I upped my mileage and ran 2:20 for the marathon and came close to running my track PRs in road races. If you can run low 8:30s for 3k, you clearly have the talent to run between 14:40 and 14:50. Just may need to get a little stronger aerobically.

Sorry was away for a day. Appreciate the other responses. JS, thanks for the offer, but might not be something I'm interested in at the moment.

To the others...I feel I am pretty strong aerobically due to the mileage I'm doing, a solid long run each week, and my constant threshold workouts. Maybe just need more time to continue building upon it.

Two thoughts I am having after reading responses here:

1. I mostly do threshold cruise intervals. Should I change this to more frequent tempos? Perhaps it will make me stronger aerobically and help with LT improvement even more than cruise intervals that I am doing.

2. I have lacked consistent 3K/5K paced worked. Maybe 6 in the last 3 months (1 every 2 weeks). I'm going to aim at doing 1 per week.

I have had some nice workouts (5x1K @ 2:58 w/2min rest) or 600/800 repeats at a pretty solid pace with 90 sec rests. So I'm just surprised I'm not capable of hitting 15 or under.

Anyway, any other advice, let me know.

It`s hard to believe you that you can`t crack 15 min at 5 k out from what you are telling us about your training ;)

But .....keep on LT:s at "cruise" intervals , that`s the best way to improve your lactate threshold. Are you sure you run them at your very best individual pace?

Also cut your mileage back to 50-65 mpw and run most shorter maxVO2-paced ( 5 k pace) intervals every week ( 200s-600s) and take al least one day off every week and do something else then training and what you like to do. If you follow my advice it will fast give improvement and you will soon reach sub 15 . Good luck!

- The Magician - :)

By the way....5 x 1 k at 2:58 and 2 min rest in training is not enough to crack 15 min.....just saying it

Thanks JS. And fair enough about that workout. I would agree. I just noted it as a recent one. I wouldn't say it was all out or anything.

I just haven't done a ton of VO2MAX workouts in the past few months.

And you don`t have to run a ton of them but mostly one per week and e.g 15-20 x 400m at 70-71 sec and your best individual rest back to 120 bpm. :)

I agree with those who suggest cutting out the 5K pane workouts. Too intense to be doing every week. Substitute slower intervals or just try a week without the extra workout once in awhile until your stamina improves.

Don’t over think it , go out slower

Thanks JS.

Webby - That's the thing though, I have not been doing many 5K paced workouts. Maybe 2 per month the last 3 months.

What kind of distance is your long run?

Hmm. Are you racing on the weeks when you're not doing the 5K pace workouts? If so, it still may be too much right now. If not, maybe play around with the rest between your 1000s? I think Jack Daniels would have you take 2 to 3 minutes of rest between them.

Finally, if you are running 15:10, you're not far enough away from your predicted 5K time to lose sleep over it, IMO. Your 800 is fast relative to your mile and your 3K so it shouldn't be a big surprise that you are a bit less competitive at the 5K than the 3K. Plug your 800 time and 3K time into this calculator (

https://timescalculator.appspot.com/

), and it predicts 15:04 for you. Consider factors like weather and quality of the track, and you could easily run 15:15 on any given day -- even with a good effort.

My long run is 15-16. It's pretty solid in my opinion. I usually do it fairly easy, but once in a while will throw in some sub LT miles.

Webby, I have not been racing much. Actually was thinking that might be part of the problem. Rest between the K's are 2 mins.

Do you take a standing rest or jogging rest in between your threshold session? I think it’s more effective to have a jog rest in between than standing rest. You can do like 5 min on 1 min off and that would be a great threshold session. Also I love to add 20- 30 second hills repeats after workouts and those really help build strength and toughness.