Mileage is fair (75-80MPW), solid long run, and a tempo each week. My other workout each week hasn't been super consistent, but usually involves some type of 5K paced workout.
Just don't have the ability to run a good 5K. Always fall apart with 1.5 miles to go.
Anyone have this issue and figure it out?
Sounds like a pacing problem to me. You’re trying to run a faster time than your fitness will allow and you blow up.
At your next race try to negative split it.
Run 6k in practice.
Raggedman wrote:
Sounds like a pacing problem to me. You’re trying to run a faster time than your fitness will allow and you blow up.
At your next race try to negative split it.
Thanks. I’m thinking this could be the case. But my 3k time seems equivalent to the pace I’m trying to hit for 5k.
Try running even splits? Going out more conservative? I felt the same way you do, that the 3k is easier than the 5k from a tactical standpoint.
What is you 3k time and what have your splits been for the 5ks?
Run more lactate threshold workouts.
Do long intervals. 3x3k? 8x1600m?
poplarjake wrote:
Raggedman wrote:
Sounds like a pacing problem to me. You’re trying to run a faster time than your fitness will allow and you blow up.
At your next race try to negative split it.
Thanks. I’m thinking this could be the case. But my 3k time seems equivalent to the pace I’m trying to hit for 5k.
And here we have the answer (unrealistic expectations).
If at the end of your 3k, you feel like you gave your all. What makes you think you can keep this pace for 2 more ks.
That you Ryan Hill?
winner winner chicken dinner wrote:
poplarjake wrote:
Thanks. I’m thinking this could be the case. But my 3k time seems equivalent to the pace I’m trying to hit for 5k.
And here we have the answer (unrealistic expectations).
No. Maybe I misspoke. My 3K time is (8:33). I’m going out in the 5K attempting to run 14:50. You are correct, I have gone out a little fast recently, but nothing crazy. I wasn’t saying I believe I can run the same pace for 5K as I do for 3K. I was saying my 3K time tells me I can run 14:50 for 5K.
40 x 440.
On the Daniels tables...
8:34 = 14:55
What are your times for shorter and longer events?
Trump wrote:
On the Daniels tables...
8:34 = 14:55
And according to Tinman calculator, 8:33 = 14:40. So OP should be running faster in a 5k. He needs more CV intervals, ~5 min miles or 3:05 1k repeats.
Tinman calculator gives faster race times for longer distances because his CV training is so effective in building stamina that it achieves better times than Daniel's system at the same VO2MAX. So a 8:33 guy with perfect training and lots of CV intervals would be able to race a 5k in 14:40. We are in VERY good sub-elite territory here, so OP is definitely talented but it also takes smart training to optimize times across all distances.
There is a reason coaches like Tinman etc are able to charge $200 for their services, because at that high level, and most likely near his ultimate potential, 5s or 10s faster in a 5k can be a lot of time.
Once a week you time trial 5,000 meters on the track. Not a gut wrenching time trial that becomes like a race, but rather a time trial that is a tempo run at correct tempo pace. If you do that every week you've got about 52 5ks under your belt. The distance, the lap count, the feeling becomes natural to you .
Your other two main workouts for those weeks are the aerobic long run and the interval workout (three miles of intervals at 5k race pace.) If you race one week -- skip the interval workout the next week -- but not the tempo 5k I recommend.
Only race at 3K.
My 10k time is good, but my 1500 time is awful!
?
Appreciate the responses.
I know about Tinman, but honestly have not looked much into CV workouts. I just graduated so I'm training on my own basically. I'll take a look. However, I basically do two workouts a week now (threshold + 5K pace). The 5K pace stuff is usually 5x1K or something similar. This CV type work sounds slower than 5K pace though. So, I'll see what it's about.
As I said originally as well...this season I have not been super consistent with those 5K workouts unlike the threshold stuff. So, that could be my primary issue right there. I have had a couple real solid workouts at 5K pace though, which had me surprised not being able to hit my 5K time.
To the other poster, not sure if you are serious about time trialing a 5K each week. Sounds insane. Of course, if you are talking about a 5K tempo, fits in well to what I am already doing. Usually repeat miles at threshold or few miles at tempo.
Someone asked about my other times.
1500 - 3:59
Mile - 4:19
800 - 1:57
poplarjake wrote:
Appreciate the responses.
I know about Tinman, but honestly have not looked much into CV workouts. I just graduated so I'm training on my own basically. I'll take a look. However, I basically do two workouts a week now (threshold + 5K pace). The 5K pace stuff is usually 5x1K or something similar. This CV type work sounds slower than 5K pace though. So, I'll see what it's about.
As I said originally as well...this season I have not been super consistent with those 5K workouts unlike the threshold stuff. So, that could be my primary issue right there. I have had a couple real solid workouts at 5K pace though, which had me surprised not being able to hit my 5K time.
To the other poster, not sure if you are serious about time trialing a 5K each week. Sounds insane. Of course, if you are talking about a 5K tempo, fits in well to what I am already doing. Usually repeat miles at threshold or few miles at tempo.
Someone asked about my other times.
1500 - 3:59
Mile - 4:19
800 - 1:57
Exactly what Tinman says - his point is that how fast you can do your 5x1k @RP/5k does not directly correlate to your racing performance. It could be that you just run harder and suffer more during the reps (for example if you drop them from 3:00/k to 2:55/k) but that doesn't mean you will be able to race a 5k in 2:55/k instead of your existing 3:00/k PR.
Doing 1k's in 2:50-2:55 week after week would burn you out, that's why he is doing CV intervals. Typical session would be 6x1k@3:05 & 6x30s hill sprints & 6x100m strides.
The faster stuff has it's place, but it's in the 1-2 months before the peak competition, where he introduces faster paced work (but also often as combo - 4x1k @CV, 4x800 3k, 4x200 800).