Oklahoma State did not qualify for NCAA XC for first time since 2002. Which of the men team currently has longest streak?

The attrition rate for high school stars in college is very high no matter what program you are talking about. In fact the attrition rate for any HS kids who run in college is ridiculously high - it would not surprise me that the average is well over 50% never make it through 4 years. Most of the time teams that are not composed of stars don't get as much flack because nobody heard of them in HS so when they disappear nobody notices then either. OSU is also not just looking to qualify, so the program work volume is structured at very high level - more work more risk. Dave Smith is well respected and didn't just forget how to coach, expect them to be good again soon.

Also as far as not getting the kids from OK - there are not that many and unless I played football, I would want to leave too.

RockyMountainHigh wrote:

MikeMach1977 wrote:

What runners besides German had issues? German had issues even after leaving OSU. He was going to have trouble adjusting to longer distances and mileage anywhere he went. When he ran for BAC and had all the tools that Nike had to offer, he still got injured. OSU won 3 national titles and had multiple other podium finishes. I think they are doing just fine. What program can you think of that doesn't have ups and downs? The entire Big 12 is down this year. They only got 2 teams into the NCAAs this yr.

I don't pretend to know much about injured OSU athletes under Smith, but I do know that the best talent out of Colorado in the past 20 years not named Cole Sprout was named Cerake Gaberkidane.

He got completely and forever damaged at OSU under Smith tenure.

Don't forget about Ryan Deak!

RockyMountainHigh wrote:

MikeMach1977 wrote:

What runners besides German had issues? German had issues even after leaving OSU. He was going to have trouble adjusting to longer distances and mileage anywhere he went. When he ran for BAC and had all the tools that Nike had to offer, he still got injured. OSU won 3 national titles and had multiple other podium finishes. I think they are doing just fine. What program can you think of that doesn't have ups and downs? The entire Big 12 is down this year. They only got 2 teams into the NCAAs this yr.

I don't pretend to know much about injured OSU athletes under Smith, but I do know that the best talent out of Colorado in the past 20 years not named Cole Sprout was named Cerake Gaberkidane.

He got completely and forever damaged at OSU under Smith tenure.

Worth noting that the in-state coaching guru for Cerake, Wetmore, didn't even want him. So I don't know that running poorly for Smith is worse than not being wanted on the CU team.

Streaks that started before 1998 are even more impressive because before that, the fields were 22 teams instead of the current 31. It was 9 regions like now but only 4 at-large instead of 13. So it was way easier to get squeezed out of a tough region than it is now.

another perspective wrote:

Streaks that started before 1998 are even more impressive because before that, the fields were 22 teams instead of the current 31. It was 9 regions like now but only 4 at-large instead of 13. So it was way easier to get squeezed out of a tough region than it is now.

I completely agree. From 1982 to 1990 the field was 22 teams, 8 regions with no at-large teams. In 1991 the 4 at-large selections were added, but it was still 8 regions. The switch to 9 regions wasn't until 1998.

Long winded post: Very partial to the Oklahoma running scene.

Oklahoma has the potential to be a good distance running state just like so many other Midwestern states. Football is religion down here and running can be seen as soft or a secondary sport which is a shame. There aren't many trails so most running is done on sidewalks and roads, but even that shouldn't be too big of a deterrent. A lot of younger coaches are starting to take over and it seems like the sport is picking up momentum. I wish that our state XC course would be held at Oklahoma State instead of the pancake flat Edmond Santa Fe course. That would be a much greater challenge and would expose athletes to a real cross country experience.

There are three D1 programs in the state who have been legit within the last 10 years. OSU being the famous one, OU was good when Martin Smith was there, and Tulsa consistently being underrated by the likes of Flotrack despite having two recent Nat'l champs in O'Hare and Scott. OU has changed coaches too many times to count since then and has plenty of money but no heart for distance running. They should have kept Ondrasek. That guy knew was good with X's and O's, just had zero scholarship to go and get good runners. OSU seems to have a high attrition rate, but probably not higher than normal. They run the s**t out of freshmen there it seems like. Smith will find a way to make them relevant again though as they've got resources in place. This course will give them good exposure. Tulsa always gets flack for recruiting too many foreigners, but the guys that win for them were overlooked by bigger places. They can develop talent with the best. Gulley and his son Taylor have a good thing going and I hope they surprise people at NCAAs.

If I was a college coach I'd look past a lot of the times that OK runners have and dive deeper. Many of the state champions here have run next to zero mileage and they go to meets in the sticks with no competition and howling wind and heat.

I think Oklahoma should consider doing what Indiana does and have no class distinction as there is one big XC state championship race. OK is not big enough to have Class B all the way to 6A. Missouri is about the same size as OK and only has 4A.

frtt wrote:

RockyMountainHigh wrote:

I don't pretend to know much about injured OSU athletes under Smith, but I do know that the best talent out of Colorado in the past 20 years not named Cole Sprout was named Cerake Gaberkidane.

He got completely and forever damaged at OSU under Smith tenure.

Worth noting that the in-state coaching guru for Cerake, Wetmore, didn't even want him. So I don't know that running poorly for Smith is worse than not being wanted on the CU team.

Do we know he didn’t want him??

I do think sometimes Wetmore is less interested in elite kids that he thinks have been run into the ground in HS, which may be true of Geberkidane, or Wetmore is at least a lot less willing to give out scholarships to those types of kids, and that makes a huge difference for a lot of families. The most talented non-Sprout CO kids the last twenty years have been John McGuire, Evan Appel, Geberkidane and Brent Vaughn, though. Not a shock that the only kid to succeed in a big way in and after college was the one kid that chose Wetmore over OSU/Stanford. Paul Roberts was up there too and threw away his running talent on CSU Pueblo and Wyoming.

Dont delete wrote:

OU did not score wrote:

While a lot of talent has transferred out, they do have a decent incoming recruiting class incoming (mostly from Texas) OSU’s current issue is they can’t stay healthy.

Gee, I wonder why that is. I'm sure it's a coincidence that German (and others) had a tough time staying healthy too (nearly 10 years ago).

When the coach tells an incoming freshman he needs to jump mileage from 60/70 mpw to over 100 in order to stay on the team and the kid gets injured you do scratch your head and say hmmmm...

Conner Winter should actually top that list.

And he was recruited and ran for CU, quite successfully.

And he didn't get run into the ground, and is actually still running professionally.

Cerake Gebrekidane ran low mileage, like maybe 40 in high school, probably less. He was set up to fail mainly due to this. His coaches in HS did not push mileage on him, and I believe he didn't even like running (wanted to play soccer). Also probably chose OSU because they offered more scholarship than anywhere else with a good team. Low mileage=recipe for disaster at the next level.

You can find a lot of failures at any top D1 program, because this is a tough sport and most people can't take the stress and training that it takes to be a top level NCAA runner. Maybe OSU has slightly more, but they also had a huge number of successes recently. Go big or go home, but don't cry when you barely trained in HS and can't handle long runs in college.

Dumb. Fast times on low mileage = big talent.

Edwards Noelle Johnson German were all low mileage in high school. All won NCAA titles over 1500m at OSU. Edwards and Johnson were both primarily 400 runners in HS... Noelle never ran more than 40 mpw in HS.

Dumb. Fast times on low mileage = big talent.

Edwards Noelle Johnson German were all low mileage in high school. All won NCAA titles over 1500m at OSU. Edwards and Johnson were both primarily 400 runners in HS... Noelle never ran more than 40 mpw in HS.[/quote]

German ran a lot his freshman year at OSU. The reason he won indoors and outdoors was his transition into more mileage. Go back on flotrack and watch what he did in a mile workout with with Ryan Vail. You think he won the NCAAs and wasn't running much or pushing the envelope? He also broke the American Junior 5k record that year as well. German also ran too fast on his easy days and pushed himself harder than Smith asked. Ryan Vail (who was a big mileage person) was a senior there when German was a freshman, I can't help but think German got to competitive in terms of everything.

It is simply a fact that to reach elite levels requires more mileage and also high intensity. If you push the envelope you are going to burn out or be more susceptible to injury. Young runners have a tendency to run too hard, too often, and not listen to wisdom. You have young people who want too much too fast. Smith has shown far too much success for anyone to think he is not a good coach. The problem speaks more to being young and naive and also the atmosphere of college running in general. I can recall many times I was running 6:00 to 6:20s early in college while only racing at 5:30 pace. It wasn't until I actually started to slow down, not worry about what I ran on easy days or every single workout that I started to race more to my talent level. I can only imagine what these guys running sub 24 8k pace are doing.

You know for a fact that is the case?? When did you run at OSU under Dave Smith? Did you hear or see him personally say that to one of your teammates? So he held a runners mileage over their head to stay on the team? Offering ultimatums now in conjunction with their scholarship offer and knowing that if they get hurt no big deal??

Because injured elite runners are really great for your job security when you are winning NCAA titles and rolling the dice that either they make it or not doesn't correlate to success.

In my knowledge there is a progression of all athletes to build up their mileage based on their previous mileage in HS and what they can handle or how their bodies react. So unless you have legitimate factual information to add rather than message board conjecture probably best to shut down your WiFi and save all of us that care about the sport and want to see the success of it overall, when colleges are cutting programs and these athletes won't be seeing any of the financial rewards for their likeness, continue to provide opportunities to athletes to succeed and earn a degree.

OSWho??? Let me guess; the team fails to get key forgiven recruits like they're accustomed to, the new team races like $h** because of no experience leadership, or heart.. and Clown Coach Lockhart jumps ship because let's face it.. it's what he does... ..Not so hawt now.

I don’t have any reason to make things up. You sound defensive.