How come a “slow twitch” man like Kipchoge can run sub 12 100m

I also remember students in early high school that used to compete at local races both in 60-100m dash and both at (short) middle distances (600m-1500m

exrunner wrote:

Kipchoge can’t run sub 12 for 100m

Correct. Even in his younger days he wouldn't have broken 13 for 100m.

How come a "fast twitch" man like Jim McDonnell can run 2:50 marathon?

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is. Kipchoge has better top-end speed than 99% of world class marathoners. What that equates to as a 100 time is irrelevant.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is. Kipchoge has better top-end speed than 99% of world class marathoners. What that equates to as a 100 time is irrelevant.

When O.P. stated sub-12 100m, some posters got distracted. Sub-3:35 1500m men with sub-2:05 Marathon is an interesting discussion. Many posters are jumping on O.P. since O.P. cannot prove Kipchoge ever had sub-12 100m speed.

Again, people don't understand how physiology affects people. There is clear science that shows that muscle biopsies in different humans have different percentages of slow-twitch, fast-twitch and fast-twitch-explosive fibers.

Look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMIwlQB-28

Farah got smoked by a 250 pound-boxer who doesn't even train for sprints and a jumper. His time was 12.98.

Why did he lose? Do the others run more mileage? Does Farah not do any speedwork? No. The only reason he lost is that he, with 20-30% FT fibers was competing against guys with 60-70% FT fibers. So even if Farah puts MUCH more effort in running than the other two guys, he can't even come close to them in a 100m sprint. He was once the best runner in the world, but his HIGH % of slow-twitch fibers, which actually made him so strong in the 1500-marathon, actually worked against him in an event such as the 100m sprint that rewards having a high % of FT fibers.

And I'm not even talking about the Brownlee brothers at the back - these triathletes are even more slow-twitch.

People need to understand that already the mile is 80% aerobic - so having a lot of slow-twitch fibers, like Farah or Kipchoge, is already VERY good for the mile, compared to Bolt with his 70% FT fibers. Even if both are 5 years old and untrained, you will never bring Bolt to a sub 4:10 mile even if you train him ideally for it. Similarly, Farah won't break 11 in a 100m sprint, no matter how much speedwork he would do (he can run low 11s with a flying start tho, the max speed of distance runners is often underrated it's the inability to explode at a start AND the fatigue that a start from the blocks causes that destroys their FAT 100/400 times compared to what they can run with a flying start).

The two misconceptions of LR are that "slow-twitch"=bad and "muscle fibers don't exist, every human is the same" which is both non-sense. Even for the 800, you want to have many ST fibers, and for any event 1500 and above, you want to be primarily slow-twitch, the FT fibers don't help much during these events and are just the last few %.

My claim (to the stupid people with slow twitch fibers in their brain) is that the argument that says that fast twitch people are fast and slow twitch people are slow but good at endurance is mainly nonsense, since elite long distance runners are very fast as well and probably as kids were the fastest in their class or school for sprint events since that’s what little kids run- sprints. And as I said above, I once read that Farah said that he and his twin brother as kids were always the fastest. So how come a kid with mostly slow twitch fibers (because it’s Farah, and he is a long distance runner, and according to the fiber twitch theory he must be mainly slow twitch) is the fastest in his class? My answer is that the argument of fast twitch people being sprinters and slow twitch being slow yet have endurance is Rubbish. So even though there are fast twitch and slow twitch fibers (it has been proven) it isn’t known how exactly those fibers work and why some people are fast and some are slow, and speed can’t be attributed to those fibers directly.

Secondly, Kipchoge is a 3:50 miler. That’s an average of 14.3 seconds for a flying 100m. I say a flying 100m because I’m talking about his top speed and I don’t care how fast he goes out of the blocks. You have to be very ignorant in running to think that a guy that runs a mile in an average speed of 14.3 for 100m can’t run a sub 12 flying 100. And I wouldn’t be even surprised if he can run low 11 for a flying 100m. He runs 5k in an average of 15.3 and 42.2 k in 17 seconds. So be sure he can go sub 12 for a flying 100m

Farah could have probably run faster. He probably didn’t push all the way so he wouldn’t pull a muscle, and who knows how many miles he ran a day before, unlike those other two he got first.

Secondly, answer this- if Farah is mainly slow twitch, how come he and his twin were the fastest is his class as kids, as he stated in one of his interviews? All the kids were even more slow twitch than him?

i highly doubt that kipchoge is a slow twitch guy.

he'll have a good portion of fast twitch.

you can't have that powerful stride without plenty of fast twitch or intermediate.

so dies the fast/slow twitch bro science speculation.

they want to update the science on real evidence of fast and slow twitch.

the guys that close in 50 to 52 seconds in the 1.5 and 5k.

there be no way in hellthat they don't have a good amount of fast twitch.

or hybrid ..

Exactly ...! wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is. Kipchoge has better top-end speed than 99% of world class marathoners. What that equates to as a 100 time is irrelevant.

When O.P. stated sub-12 100m, some posters got distracted. Sub-3:35 1500m men with sub-2:05 Marathon is an interesting discussion. Many posters are jumping on O.P. since O.P. cannot prove Kipchoge ever had sub-12 100m speed.

Distance runners don't race 100 meters in meets not do they run them in practice so there is no data base from which to draw conclusions.

In our league there was a school that had a 4:13 miler and the state champion in the 440. The story was that the miler could be the 440 guy in a 50-yard sprint. Is that useful information?

longjack wrote:

i highly doubt that kipchoge is a slow twitch guy.

^^ None of the elite athletes are "slow twitch." All of them can throw down a nasty closing 400 if needed. Sprint speed is innate. Genetics prevail each and every time.

The comparison shouldn’t be between elite long distance runners and elite sprinters. It should be with elite long distance runners and other fit people who run as amateurs. You can see plenty of fit people amateur runners with low body fat at your local track. 99% of them can’t run 12.98 for 100m. So how come? They are even more slow twitch than Farah?

You dig?

A more logical explanation would be that elite sprinters have mostly fast twitch fibers, and elite middle distance and long distance runners have also a lot of fast twitch fibers but less than sprinters, which makes them both fast and have endurance, and then regular mortal people have even less fast twitch fibers than the elite long distance runners. And in order to be an elite long distance runner you would need to have higher amount of fast twitch than regular people but a little bit less than elites. But even this explanation I doubt since my claim is that we really don’t know why some are fast and some aren’t

This thread is kinda stupid.

Sub 12 100s mean nothing.

I pulled up a dual meet of mine to show it.

(first meet of the season)

Out of the 50 male runners in the 100m race, (this is an all-comers meet, no time/placement requirement to enter. you just need a jersey) 13 runners went under 12 seconds, and an additional 5 went 12.0X.

To compare the skill level of this meet, I placed second in the 800 with a 2:12 and 3rd in the 1600 with a 4:42. (My team was dominant and we were just trying to pick up all of the scoring spots)

I am a 400/800/1600 combo that has ran an 11.88 from a standing start and I'm not even proud of it. To be fair, my coach speculates I'm probably in the ball park of 60/40 or 65/35 fast/slow twitch muscles.

My point is that running has certain talent barriers, but breaking 12 isn't one. 12 seconds for someone that runs a lot, has an efficient weight, and does speed work once or twice a week is achievable by probably anyone that doesn't have a physical disability.

Exactly ...! wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I'm not quite sure what the point of this thread is. Kipchoge has better top-end speed than 99% of world class marathoners. What that equates to as a 100 time is irrelevant.

When O.P. stated sub-12 100m, some posters got distracted. Sub-3:35 1500m men with sub-2:05 Marathon is an interesting discussion. Many posters are jumping on O.P. since O.P. cannot prove Kipchoge ever had sub-12 100m speed.

Yeah, the OP is a moran.

12 seconds achievable by anyone that doesn’t have a physical disability- allow me to call you the idiot of the year. To run sub 12 you have to be super gifted. Sub 12 is very very fast. The average fit guy who runs and a lot and does speed work etc can barely break 15 seconds. Go to the local track, you would see plenty of those, ask them to run a 100m. 90% won’t break 15. And no one would break 12.

You must be one of those let’s runners who post “need help to run sub 15 for 5k” in reality run 25 minutes

Countless JV high schoolers run sub 12 despite having much worse biomechanics than Kipchoge, so if he can only manage 12.00 it must be because his muscles are holding him back. Kipchoge has great biomechanics and a great strength to weight ratio yet he’s a poor sprinter. Why? Because his fibers just can’t carry him any faster.

In contrast, someone with perfect biomechanics and a lot of fast twitch fibers will run sub 10.

Elite distance runners can run 50.0 for a lap because they’re super efficient. Their muscle fibers produce less power than a sprinter’s, but they’re able to do a lot more with less power.

To be a world class distance runner you need efficiency and endurance. To be a world class sprinter you need efficiency and power.

No, it's because some people are not mechanically built to run at all. Good distance runners are so their good mechanics allow them to be fast despite their fiber type.

A Shetland Pony has more fast twitch than a racehorse. Can it run as fast? Of course not.

So far I knew that the average republican white letsrunner runs a sub 15 minutes 5k and a sub 4:10 1,500m, and his easy pace is 6:30 minutes mile. Now I also know that his 100m time is sub 12. Oh, and he is an alpha male.