The twitch people obviously would say that Kipchoge or any other marathon runner have mostly slow twitch fibers muscle in his legs, so how come he can run 100m in sub 12 seconds or if you will for sure sub 50 form 400m, while most fit people that aren’t professional athletes and probably don’t have high percentage of slow twitch like Kipchoge can’t even run sub 15 for 100m and can’t even run sub 60 for 400m?
Is because the whole slow twitch fast twitch isn’t what makes someone fast or slow?
And super fast twitch sprinters run a FAT 100 in under 10 seconds, so . . .
do you have any evidence pointing to that sub 12?
There are not just fast (type IIx) and slow twitch (type I) fibers. Muscle fibers are more complex than that. We actually see hybridized fibers (type IIa) develop with training. These fibers are more glycolytic and can contract more forcefully/rapidly, but do not fatigue nearly as easily as your typical type IIx fibers that you'd see in a sprinter.
It's a give and take. It's also more complex than what I said. It's apparent that muscle fiber types are a spectrum. We've assigned the typings ourselves. Our bodies don't operate that way. It's not cookie-cutter with type I, IIx, or IIa. There might be some fibers in someone's body that are more IIa than others, etc.
running sub 60 for 400m is very mental, especially in regards to pacing. almost every time I broke 60 I was chasing someone, not time. a lot of people who never competed in hs/college will go to a track and tt a 400m trying to break 60 but are doomed from the start because they're too time focused.
Kipchoge never necessarily demonstrated potential to run sub 50 for 400m, nor is he necessarily a "slow twitch" athlete (see below for his shorter distance PRs). He could probably run 52-50 at his peak, when he was focused on the track, and was running 3:50 for mile/3:33 for 1500.
Remember, slow/fast twitch is a false dichotomy. Everyone has some distribution of these muscles throughout their bodies. It is better to think of these muscles as slow/slower/slowest, and best to not think of them at all. a well rounded athlete should be training all aspects of their athleticism.
Also, Eliud Kipchoge is one of the best athletes who has ever lived, so don't beat yourself up that his 100m/400m PRs are faster than the average person. That at my peak I could keep pace with him for 100-350m is a point of pride (albeit mild), and comparison beyond that is not going to get you fitter/happier
Your point is what exactly? wrote:
And super fast twitch sprinters run a FAT 100 in under 10 seconds, so . . .
Right, 12 seconds isn't very fast for a fit person. Even bad sprinters can break 12 seconds. Kipchoge is one of the most fit people on earth but he still wouldn't score in the 100 or 200 meters in most high school dual meets.
We are how we train. More than likely, if Kipchoge had a muscle biopsy in order to determine muscle twitch ratio when Kipchoge was in his early twenties, it would show more fast twitch than a biopsy would show today. Humans grow cells and shed cells daily. All humans are slow twitch mammals. Biologists who study humans say humans have three different muscle types. They state: fast, combination and slow. The truth: humans have slow, slower and slowest twitch fibers. Humans, trained or untrained can usually walk 16 to 20 minutes a mile for ten plus miles while carrying 25 to 50 pounds of gear. Most humans have to train to be able to run 8 to 10 minutes a mile for ten plus miles. Humans are nomadic walkers. Regarding Kipchoge and 400m. A young Kipchoge was capable of a sub-50 F.A.T. 400m most likely. Not now. Even when Kipchoge was capable of sub-50 400m, I am sure his 60m and 100m ability at the time was far worse than elite women who race sub-50 400m and worse than high school boys who race sub-50 400m. Eg. when I used to do JFK Presidential Physical Fitness, I was able to race 600 yards faster than 12 times my 50 yard dash performance.
3hr-marathoner wrote:
Your point is what exactly? wrote:
And super fast twitch sprinters run a FAT 100 in under 10 seconds, so . . .
Right, 12 seconds isn't very fast for a fit person. Even bad sprinters can break 12 seconds. Kipchoge is one of the most fit people on earth but he still wouldn't score in the 100 or 200 meters in most high school dual meets.
12 seconds is super fast for a fit man and more than 99% of people who aren’t runners but are fit won’t break 12 seconds. The majority of fit people won’t run 15 seconds
Ggggg wrote:
3hr-marathoner wrote:
Right, 12 seconds isn't very fast for a fit person. Even bad sprinters can break 12 seconds. Kipchoge is one of the most fit people on earth but he still wouldn't score in the 100 or 200 meters in most high school dual meets.
12 seconds is super fast for a fit man and more than 99% of people who aren’t runners but are fit won’t break 12 seconds. The majority of fit people won’t run 15 seconds
*key word, running economy matters. If you don't ever practice something, of course you aren't going be good at it.
*** key word *** wrote:
Ggggg wrote:
I meant aren’t pro runners. I’m talking about young fit people who do sport nonprofessionaly
12 seconds is super fast for a fit man and more than 99% of people who aren’t runners but are fit won’t break 12 seconds. The majority of fit people won’t run 15 seconds
*key word, running economy matters. If you don't ever practice something, of course you aren't going be good at it.
mcvred wrote:
He could probably run 52-50 at his peak, when he was focused on the track, and was running 3:50 for mile/3:33 for 1500.
52 for a 3:50 miler lol
Yeah. Right.
You're defining any marathon runner as being "slow-twitch". You don't believe someone needs some fast-twitch muscles to run 4:38 mile pace for a marathon?
mcvred wrote:
running sub 60 for 400m is very mental, especially in regards to pacing. almost every time I broke 60 I was chasing someone, not time. a lot of people who never competed in hs/college will go to a track and tt a 400m trying to break 60 but are doomed from the start because they're too time focused.
Kipchoge never necessarily demonstrated potential to run sub 50 for 400m, nor is he necessarily a "slow twitch" athlete (see below for his shorter distance PRs). He could probably run 52-50 at his peak, when he was focused on the track, and was running 3:50 for mile/3:33 for 1500.
Remember, slow/fast twitch is a false dichotomy. Everyone has some distribution of these muscles throughout their bodies. It is better to think of these muscles as slow/slower/slowest, and best to not think of them at all. a well rounded athlete should be training all aspects of their athleticism.
Also, Eliud Kipchoge is one of the best athletes who has ever lived, so don't beat yourself up that his 100m/400m PRs are faster than the average person. That at my peak I could keep pace with him for 100-350m is a point of pride (albeit mild), and comparison beyond that is not going to get you fitter/happier
Mentality > Physicality
BigTex wrote:
mcvred wrote:
running sub 60 for 400m is very mental, especially in regards to pacing. almost every time I broke 60 I was chasing someone, not time. a lot of people who never competed in hs/college will go to a track and tt a 400m trying to break 60 but are doomed from the start because they're too time focused.
Kipchoge never necessarily demonstrated potential to run sub 50 for 400m, nor is he necessarily a "slow twitch" athlete (see below for his shorter distance PRs). He could probably run 52-50 at his peak, when he was focused on the track, and was running 3:50 for mile/3:33 for 1500.
Remember, slow/fast twitch is a false dichotomy. Everyone has some distribution of these muscles throughout their bodies. It is better to think of these muscles as slow/slower/slowest, and best to not think of them at all. a well rounded athlete should be training all aspects of their athleticism.
Also, Eliud Kipchoge is one of the best athletes who has ever lived, so don't beat yourself up that his 100m/400m PRs are faster than the average person. That at my peak I could keep pace with him for 100-350m is a point of pride (albeit mild), and comparison beyond that is not going to get you fitter/happier
Mentality > Physicality
No one has ever won the Mentality vs Physicality battle.
I have run a faster 100 than Kipchoge and was just a half decent middle distance runner and definitely no sprinter. He is the world's best long distance runner, I maybe didn't place in the first 1000 or 10000 in my disciplines (800/1500) at best.
So if a nobody can actually beat Kipchoge in a 100, you see that he is maybe fast in comparison to your average couch potato, but very slow in comparison to his long distance performances.
In principle he is mainly a slow twich runner who maxed out his basic speed, but still is no better than a mediocre mixed-twitch (like me) or hopeless against every recreational fast-twitch sprinter.
Ggggg wrote:
Is because the whole slow twitch fast twitch isn’t what makes someone fast or slow?
Are you really this dumb or just pretending?
Slow twitch doesn't mean almost paralytic.
1. Kipchoge can’t run sub 12 for 100m
2. The understanding of ‘fast twitch’ is completely skewed here. A 4:38 mile is not fast twitch. 12s 100m is not fast twitch.
Fast twitch is 100m in 10 seconds or 200m in 19 or 20 seconds. The difference is huge.
A fast twitch runner refers to someone with 80-90% fast twitch fibres. That person will not run a 4:38 mile. They are a pure sprinter.
They are not comparable to a marathon runner.
If a U.S. high school coach would have had Eliud Kipchoge from ages 14 to 18, Kipchoge at many U.S. high schools would have been one of 4 fastest 400m males in the school. The high school team would count on Kipchoge for 4 x400m relay. In U.S., Kipchoge would never have raced 3200m since 3200m in U.S. high school meets is immediately prior to 4 x 400m relay.
Did I miss something? When did Kipchoge run a sub 12 100m?
Since he runs 42.2 km in 17 seconds average, surely he can run a flying 12 seconds 100m (easily). And without a doubt sub 50 400m.
Like someone has written above. If he grew up in the US, he would sure be mistaken in his early teens for being a gifted sprinter, and his coaches would train him to be a sprinter.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Rest in Peace Adrian Lehmann - 2:11 Swiss marathoner. Dies of heart attack.