Mens 5000m. Slower, but cleaner?

Everyone capable of gapping Farah in Rio was preemptively forced clean well in advance.

Another idiotic post by the biggest imbecile on these boards. Face the facts, nobody is capable of gapping Farah and they haven't been able to for several years. Your stupid theories are nothing more than the ramblings of a sub-Ventolin type mind. You're the type who could drive a woman straight into Jamin's arms. Your buffoonery exalts Rojo to an Einsteinesque aura.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Everyone capable of gapping Farah in Rio was preemptively forced clean well in advance.

This is what I have been claiming for some time now. The point is that the

current 2:04 marathoners are 13:10 guys and not 12:50 guys

(Imaging Kipsang running 12:50 with his marathon gait). I catch some flak

here from incompetent posters.

5000m fan wrote:

Four guys under 13:00 this year, none below 12:59. Strange DL races with unpredictable winners.

Compared to the WR and previous years: Is this a good sign? Of a cleaner sport? And hence a dirtier past?

Don't listen to the other idiot, this a good topic. Back twenty years ago 5k races at the main European meets would be won in 12:44/54 and 4th or 7th would go 12:58 or something and those guys usually looked unco and out of shape. Now that sort of performer is a serious medal contender. So either a) elite male running has gone backwards dramatically into a "dark ages" or b) the top runner's 15-20 years ago were so horrendously doped up. What is important to note is that technology has improved dramatically ever the last 20 years, spikes are lighter and stronger, foam rollers and injury prevention, cross training and core strength conditioning has mushroomed. Nutrition and supplements are more advanced now. Coupled with the fact that money is still in the sport, which means you constantly have a new generation arrive that is hungrier and beginning from a higher base then the previous generation which should mean a constant improvement. But this is why answer b) is more likely. They didn't call it the EPO era for nothing! I would say that the most talented runners are currently running marathons (probably to face less testing) then on the track and it has been that way for the last ten years, due to the massive amounts of money in marathons.

I don't know about all events, but every event from the 1500 to the 10,000 is unquestionably cleaner now than they were in the 1990s. There might be just as many dopers, just at lower levels and some that are doped to the same level as the 90s, but on average the times now are much closer to natural human limits.

I think this hypothesis makes a lot of sense, but it's certainly curious that the 1500 is as fast or faster than its ever been whereas the 5k is much slower.

Everyone who believes you need drugs to be able to lift your legs up and run:

Post in this thread and show what a stupid idiot that you are!

off base wrote:

I don't know about all events, but every event from the 1500 to the 10,000 is unquestionably cleaner now than they were in the 1990s. There might be just as many dopers, just at lower levels and some that are doped to the same level as the 90s, but on average the times now are much closer to natural human limits.

Let me get this straight, more people are running faster than ever in the 1500m, the 800m record is new, the steeple record will probably fall soon and the marathon record is being forced down with regularity. So how is te sport cleaner? There's no talent in the 5000/10000 they are all in the marathon. No, Kipsang hasn't run 12:50 but if someone like Kipchoge was only a marathoner his whole career you would say the same of him. Wanjiru was an awesome 10,000m runner and he only ran a few and then went to the marathon, now there are guys destroying what he was doing in the marathon, yet you don't think they could run a fast 5000/10000? No, if anything, this sport is more doped than ever.

take a look at the 1500m rankings in the mid 2000. As deep as now.

The marathon record is now in line with the other records. was very weak for years. Wanjiru ran 2:06 in the heat in Beijing - nobody could do copy

this. He would be a low 2:02 runner.

the 5k is def a lot cleaner than it was in the 90s

Retest Bekele's and Geb's blood and urine samples ASAP

POTY.

yyy wrote:

take a look at the 1500m rankings in the mid 2000. As deep as now.

The marathon record is now in line with the other records. was very weak for years. Wanjiru ran 2:06 in the heat in Beijing - nobody could do copy

this. He would be a low 2:02 runner.

The 1500 certainly doesn't have the same depth of times this year compared to the 90's. How many guys have beaten 3:30 this year? 1 isn't it!? This is weak compared to even recent years, which is strange as normally the fast times come during Olympic years.

I think that all the problems re drugs at end of last year has resulted in a lot more testing and many athletes are scared and not risking so much this year, hence the lack of 3:30 times. This would be the same for 5 & 10k too.

There were like 6 sub 12:50 PB guys in Zurich. Don't see how all the talent is in the marathon. The talented guys just seem to be sucking for whatever reason

bigtool05 wrote:

I think this hypothesis makes a lot of sense, but it's certainly curious that the 1500 is as fast or faster than its ever been whereas the 5k is much slower.

No, it's expected random variation. Some events are always stronger and some are weaker at any given time. You're just looking for patters where there aren't any.

HardLoper wrote:

bigtool05 wrote:

I think this hypothesis makes a lot of sense, but it's certainly curious that the 1500 is as fast or faster than its ever been whereas the 5k is much slower.

No, it's expected random variation. Some events are always stronger and some are weaker at any given time. You're just looking for patters where there aren't any.

We totally agree here. I'm not looking for patterns to fit my preconceived notions the way many posters on here do, simply pointing out the patterns that exist. The drugs hypothesis is a plausible explanation, but it's certainly not the only one, and it doesn't fit the facts quite as well as some people seem to think.

HardLoper wrote:

bigtool05 wrote:

I think this hypothesis makes a lot of sense, but it's certainly curious that the 1500 is as fast or faster than its ever been whereas the 5k is much slower.

No, it's expected random variation. Some events are always stronger and some are weaker at any given time. You're just looking for patters where there aren't any.

This is the answer. The men are slower but the women are faster than ever the past two years - see Ayana and Dibaba smashing WRs and pulling everyone to faster times. Case in point: Rowbury and Huddle. Are the women dirtier and the men cleaner? That wouldn't really make sense.

I think a lot depends on what distances have the current talent. Rudisha has pulled a lot of people to pb and nrs the way Bekele and El did during their periods of dominance. In 2009 Ritz ran faster than anyone in the world this year in his AR in a race where Bekele pushed for a fast time. Was Ritz really faster than all of today's runners, including Mo?

OTOH, in the marathon the men are breaking WRs regularly, and running close to WR times in the lot of races, but no one of the women's side is running close to Paula's times. The women just do not have the equivalent of a Kipchoge right now.

It goes in cycles - Bolt in the sprints, now we are seeing fast times in the men's 400 again after a period when they were relatively slower. It's just a matter of time before the next Bekele or El G comes along - drugged or not.

I wound not say people are running faster than ever in the 1500m.

Here are the top 10 this year:

1. 3:29.33 Asbel Kiprop Kenya KEN

2. 3:30.49 Ronald Kwemoi Kenya KEN

3. 3:31.19 Elijah Motonei Manangoi Kenya KEN

4. 3:31.35 Taoufik Makhloufi Algeria ALG

5. 3:31.54 Abdalaati Iguider Morocco MAR

6. 3:31.68 Ayanleh Souleiman Djibouti DJI

7. 3:31.74 Mohamed Farah Great Britain & N.I. GBR

8. 3:32.13 Ryan Gregson Australia AUS

9. 3:32.30 Sadik Mikhou Bahrain BRN

10. 3:32.97 Hillary Cheruiyot Ngetich

Here are just some from the EPO era that are faster than any time run this year:

3:26.00 Hicham El Guerrouj

3:26.34 Bernard Lagat

3:27.37 Noureddine Morceli

3:28.12 Noah Ngeny

3:28.95 Fermin Cacho

3:28.98 Mehdi Baala

3:29.02 Daniel Kipchirchir Komen

3:29.14 Rashid Ramzi

3:29.18 Vénuste Niyongabo

3:29.29 William Chirchir

Pretty much bang on, you could extend it to include Ali Saidi-Sief who ran 3:29.51 and 4:46 for 2000m strangely he was only ever caught on Nandrolone.

This is kinda random but I missed the last day of the olympic track meet. The final 1500 of the men's 5000 was faster than the 1500. I couldn't believe how slow the 1500 was. It looked like a high school state meet.