Price certainly cost Dibaba a sub-3:50, and almost the record, when she ran too slow (2:04) but more importantly, too uneven (60-low,64-low) for 800m, which forced Dibaba to run sub-2:00 for the final 800 (60,59).
When will a decent pacer arise that can deliver a something like Kiprop got in his race?
Price got her to 2:04 at least, but for an even pacer for 800m, you'd want someone who typically runs even pace, e.g. a Brenda Martinez type, and Brenda could get her to 1k probably.
Had Dibaba run 61 & 2:03 she may not have had the 59 second last lap left in her and missed the WR by tenths. Perhaps Price did really well.
Price's uneven pace hurt Sifan Hassan more than it did Dibaba.
Price did verywell, not perfect, but very well. I'd give her a 8.5-9 out of 10.
Glass half empty?
The race was amazing, the time was amazing, adrenaline was high and it wasn't "almost" the record, it WAS the record. It's easy to armchair coach after the fact. Price did a fine job. As far as a Martinez type goes, pure speculation.
perhaps not wrote:
Price's uneven pace hurt Sifan Hassan more than it did Dibaba.
Price didn't run an uneven pace. And you have to remember, the start of the race is going to be a little faster just to get clear of the pack.
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2)
ideally, Price would have maintained around 15.5's after the first 100/200 (which would have cut off about 2.0-2.5 seconds through the first 800), but that is still a pretty decent pace, and it's not like it was surging and then slowing the entire time (which would have been much more inefficient). As the other poster mentioned, if Price had maintained a faster pace on the second lap, we don't know if Dibaba would have had it in her to push as hard as she did in the last 500m to come away with the WR (even as it was, her last 200m was slower than the previous 300m and no faster than she ran after Price peeled off, which suggests to me that she was running plenty hard in the early/mid race).
I think Jordan Hasay might have been a better pacer. She probably would have gone 61 then 63 and then 62 - for 1200. Dibaba would have run 3:48.7
Oh? wrote:
Price didn't run an uneven pace.....
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2).
The stupidity of posts on here is shocking sometimes. How can you say she didn't run an uneven pace then immediately show that one lap was 60 and the other was 64? Four seconds over 400 meters isn't uneven??
Regarding closing hard, Dibaba wouldn't have needed to close as hard if the pace was more even. Is this not obvious basic running knowledge?
Hasay shesay wrote:
I think Jordan Hasay might have been a better pacer. She probably would have gone 61 then 63 and then 62 - for 1200. Dibaba would have run 3:48.7
Lol you think Hasay could run a 3:06 1200??? Good lord people are delusional on here.
The need a pace setter for the pace setter.
I don't think Price can run a 2:03 off of a 60 second quarter (probably needs a 58/59 at most).
The idiocy of people who never race or coach becomes painfully evident on these threads. The fastest pace for a 1500 is quick the first and last 100 with AS EVEN AS POSSIBLE for the rest.
Oh? wrote:
perhaps not wrote:Price's uneven pace hurt Sifan Hassan more than it did Dibaba.
Price didn't run an uneven pace. And you have to remember, the start of the race is going to be a little faster just to get clear of the pack.
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2)
.
Dibaba was running up Price's asscrack at the 800, and had to immediately chop a second/100, then even more, in order to make up the time that Price cost her in lap two. Of course she made it all look more reasonable, because she is likely in at least 3:48 shape, but without a decent pacer we'll never know.
The poster that said that Price is probably incapable of a 60/62 is probably right; Price looked gassed as it was.
real old guy wrote:
Glass half empty?
The race was amazing, the time was amazing, adrenaline was high and it wasn't "almost" the record, it WAS the record. It's easy to armchair coach after the fact. Price did a fine job. As far as a Martinez type goes, pure speculation.
"COST her the sub-3:50 almost the record". Reading comprehension takes a back seat yet again.
Ptok wrote:
Oh? wrote:Price didn't run an uneven pace.....
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2).
The stupidity of posts on here is shocking sometimes. How can you say she didn't run an uneven pace then immediately show that one lap was 60 and the other was 64? Four seconds over 400 meters isn't uneven??
Regarding closing hard, Dibaba wouldn't have needed to close as hard if the pace was more even. Is this not obvious basic running knowledge?
Price's pace wasn't uneven. It was a positive split, but it was gradual. "Uneven" in this context would be running a 15.5, then a 15.0, then a 16.0, then a 15.5, etc. -- surging and fading and surging, which is going to cost Dibaba energy as she accelerates and then loses momentum.
Price's pacing being a gradual slowdown wasn't nearly ideal (as I already stated in that post), but it wasn't killing Dibaba's chances to run fast. The first lap was expected to be faster, because you have to get out faster, it just would have PROBABLY been better if the rest of the way she was running 15.5's (62.0 pace) which would have resulted in a slightly slower first lap and a faster second, leading into the key third lap (for a time trial).
Needing to close hard: Dibaba didn't close hard. She closed the last 200 at 62 second pace for 400m (15.4-15.5 for a 30.9 second last 200m). Is THAT not obvious basic running knowledge, that closing the race no faster than the pace she was already running it is not "closing hard"?
Victor E. Lapp wrote:
The idiocy of people who never race or coach becomes painfully evident on these threads. The fastest pace for a 1500 is quick the first and last 100 with AS EVEN AS POSSIBLE for the rest.
Oh? wrote:Price didn't run an uneven pace. And you have to remember, the start of the race is going to be a little faster just to get clear of the pack.
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2)
.
Dibaba was running up Price's asscrack at the 800, and had to immediately chop a second/100, then even more, in order to make up the time that Price cost her in lap two. Of course she made it all look more reasonable, because she is likely in at least 3:48 shape, but without a decent pacer we'll never know.
The poster that said that Price is probably incapable of a 60/62 is probably right; Price looked gassed as it was.
Interesting - Dibaba just set a world record by NOT closing the last 100m the fastest (something usually done in tactical or championship settings, not settings where you are trying to run the best time you possibly can) wasn't something she should have done?
I wonder, how many world records were run where the last 100m was notably faster than the rest of the race? Probably not many. Most of the time, when going for a fast time in, say, a 1500m, you are going to run a quick third lap in order to get to that time. Why? Because chasing records means taking risks, most notably that you are going through the mid/late stages of the race FASTER than you normally would. This is different from racing for medals because the point there is to be in a position to win (and if you go too hard too early, you're going to have less left in the tank when someone gets on your shoulder to challenge you as you come into the homestretch). In other words, going for fast times (time trialing) means you are going to be more aggressive in the middle/late stages of the race while NOT saving yourself for a big final push.
But, with your wealth of racing and coaching knowledge, I'm sure you already knew that and are just testing the masses on LRC. Price didn't do a perfect job, but we don't know what would have happened if Price did run the more ideal 15.5's throughout.
Victor E. Lapp wrote:
real old guy wrote:Glass half empty?
The race was amazing, the time was amazing, adrenaline was high and it wasn't "almost" the record, it WAS the record. It's easy to armchair coach after the fact. Price did a fine job. As far as a Martinez type goes, pure speculation.
"COST her the sub-3:50 almost the record". Reading comprehension takes a back seat yet again.
Haha! You bit and restructured your sentence! Nice!
Clearly it is alcohol-o'clock in your time zone.
real old guy wrote:
Victor E. Lapp wrote:"COST her the sub-3:50 almost the record". Reading comprehension takes a back seat yet again.
Haha! You bit and restructured your sentence! Nice!
My calculator says she ran near the perfect pace to run her fastest time.
To run 3:50, you should go through 750m in 1:56.65. She went through .2 faster than that.
You have to remember that you always have a "free" first 30 to 45 seconds of a race where you can go a little faster without detriment. That is why the best 800 times are positive split.
While you would want to just finish the race at your peak speed, the poster above was correct that it is a little better to error on the side of too fast rather than too slow when making a record attempt. If you are just keeping pace or losing just a little speed when sprinting at the end, the time difference from an absolute perfectly paced race is very minimal.
For what it's worth, Dibaba was happy with Price's pacing job.
http://www.iaaf.org/news/feature/genzebe-dibaba-1500m-world-record
“The pacer did a really good job and I was confident in her. … She did such a good job that I knew I had to keep pushing. I didn’t want to waste the opportunity.”
Soprano wrote:
For what it's worth, Dibaba was happy with Price's pacing job.
http://www.iaaf.org/news/feature/genzebe-dibaba-1500m-world-record“The pacer did a really good job and I was confident in her. … She did such a good job that I knew I had to keep pushing. I didn’t want to waste the opportunity.”
Who is she to question Victor E.Lapp?
