Any HS Coaches have thoughts on this issue?

She's probably underperforming relative to her absolute ability - but she's doing a pretty good job for you and I would advise you to tread carefully. Trying to force mental intensity can backfire.

She may well mature to the point where she'll go at it more, but I'd recommend letting her figure that out in her own way/good time.

Be glad you have her.

same thing with my girls. Four of our girls decide to jog every practice and skip a lot of practices but yet they find a way to PR every meet.

Whattado Now wrote:

During track season... she runs 5:10 1600. Which is even more surprising but she basically races into shape and runs a 20-30 second PR at State.

The most surprising thing here is that 5:30-40 makes your state meet.

Whattado Now wrote:

Young HS female I coach. She runs all mileage at 10 min pace, she could care less

She COULDN'T care less.

She's training smart, man.

60-75% of 5k Pace is where I have my high school kids do their easy mileage.

I have a 5:09 girl that ran 19:10 last season and 60-75% of her 5k is 10:13-8:10 pace. Everything in that range does the same thing...runs leaning towards the 60% range leave you feeling better for workouts (that's good, BTW).

Most high school kids over-run all of their workouts. She should be your shining example of training intelligently.

There is no one answer, but hopefully this will help.

First things first. It's not true that HS girls as a whole tend to perform better in races than workouts. They're no different than guys in that regard. In my opinion, it's also not correct to think that she is training as she should, but given that she's apparently running alone (i.e. friends aren't holding her back, which is pretty common), it sounds more like she is holding back in a big way. The real question is why?

Several possibilities.

1. She has a parent or "inner voice" telling her not to overextend herself in practice and that only the big races mean anything.

2. She's lazy and/or unmotivated to do the work.

3. She just doesn't get the whole training makes me better thing, at least not in a way that impacts her choices at practice.

The best solution would be to talk to her about your perceptions, quite obviously if you haven't done so already. I wouldn't confront her over it, but ask if there's a reason. What you want is a self-motivated kid who will choose to work hard, not a kid who feels forced, so I would be sure to tell her that she's free to make whatever choice she wants, but that she could achieve so much more by taking a different path. Tell her that you care about her as a person, not as some coach who wants to squeeze everything from her that you can, and you just want to know her thoughts so that you can make her experience as positive as possible.

Again, not to say you aren't doing it already, but I'd follow up by making sure you have a good balance with any praise toward the team, by talking as much about effort as performance, if not more. E.g. rather than talk about how great someone's time was in a race, or how they won or finished high in a meet, I'd talk about the effort kids put into practice and how it paid off in the race, or focus on effort during the race. Maybe a kid got out slower, but came on strong, or started too fast, but hung on. If this kid is into being praised for her performance, then maybe switch the variable that governs praise to something like effort.

I had a freshman last year that was very similar. She was a mid to low 18 min. 5k runner that was content to run 9:30-10 min. pace. Instead of giving her time goals, we usually assigned her a teammate to run with for one workout and one easy run a week that was at a slightly faster pace than where she would run solo. Over the course of the season we moved her up with faster girls about every other week until she was training with the top group by the end of the season. We always let her take one or two easy runs a week though where she could run as slow as she wanted or run with teammates her own age, even after she moved into the top group. This summer, she's figured out things a bit more and while she's not always comfortable with pushing the pace on workouts quite as much as I'd like, she'll run 8:15-8:45 pace on her easy days without any reminders.

Overall, we've had more team success when our easy days are slower, but we've also had problems with kids going too slow. We usually assign groups on easy days now and give them a 30-45 sec. pace window to hold them accountable, but still allow them the ability to listen to their body.

A lot of good thoughts here. I know it's not a unique situation, although I think her talent may be unique and she just needs to find that out for herself.

My experience as a coach is that a lot of HS females will train at a slower corresponding pace than they race, especially 400m and 800m runners. I am often surprised come race day, particularly with female underclassmen. I think it's not a bad thing.

So additional info, she has a great attitude and loves the sport. It's not like someone is making her be there. She will readily admit that she really likes racing in big races, and doesn't like training so much. Her training intensity does pick up a couple weeks prior to a big race, she can focus for about 2 weeks.

I've tried to put her with someone who is running 8 min pace, but she'll just lag a mile in or so. She likes to run but likes to run comfortable.

Some things I've done in last year that may not help this particular situation 1) told kids no more Garmin on long runs. I noticed that as the Garmins increased, so did the injuries on my team; and 2) switched from miles to minutes. These changes have decreased injuries and showing up to workouts fatigued to almost zero. With this individual the minutes certainly slowed the pace, especially on out and backs. In general though, I'm thinking she is definitely getting something out of a summer full of 60 minute runs at 10 mm, but wonder if she would run better with 8 mm.

Kind of a clash between making sure she's enjoying the sport and making sure she is running up to her potential so she can enjoy it that much more- tough to balance though.

I'd recommend trying to make smaller jumps with her if you have a big enough team and the depth. Moving from 10 min. pace to 8 min pace is going to feel like a pretty big change of effort. Maybe try to find someone that is running 9-9:15 pace for a few weeks to pair her with. I think that lack of focus is pretty common in the younger girls. I know it is on our team!! It's good that you're keeping in mind that she needs to enjoy the sport - that is so important for HS girls.

I agree with you on the lower injury rates with the slower easy days. I'm a firm believer that the number one thing you can do to get HS kids to improve is consistent training. I'd rather a kid have a kid run a little too slow on easy days or workouts, but stay healthy and avoid the time off. We do a mix of measuring runs in minutes and miles - it really depends on the purpose of the run. We usually let our girls wear Garmins because we really try to teach the purpose of different workouts and when certain paces are appropriate, but when girls need extra recovery we have watch free days so they can just listen to their body. It's always nice to see that others are getting similar results.

We also will check HRs on about half of our runs or workouts midway through. My girls are more willing to adjust their pace/effort if their HR is way off rather than if they were off their goal pace because (after a LOT of teaching), they understand that their HR can also take into their stress levels, illness, etc. that affects training.

You guys really over think this. If girls are having fun and trust you they run fast. A million things can throw that off. There is no science when it comes to the female. It's all art.

So she's enjoying herself and running PRs. What's the problem again?

10/10

OP

Did you say this was a teenage girl?

There is no answer. There is no answer for teenage girls. None. No matter the question. No answer.

HS Girls Coach wrote:

I'd recommend trying to make smaller jumps with her if you have a big enough team and the depth. Moving from 10 min. pace to 8 min pace is going to feel like a pretty big change of effort. Maybe try to find someone that is running 9-9:15 pace for a few weeks to pair her with. I think that lack of focus is pretty common in the younger girls. I know it is on our team!! It's good that you're keeping in mind that she needs to enjoy the sport - that is so important for HS girls.

^^^^^^^

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

Update: I put her with two 9 min JV girls (21-22 min 5K girls), told her I really needed her to help them focus on running 9 minute pace because it will help them come season. And it's working perfectly- who says you can't good info on this site?

How fast does she run the 400 in? If she's under 60 I can understand she has a bit of a sprint physiological makeup which tends to make it uncomfortable doing more reasonably paced daily runs.

Otherwise I'd say she doesn't truly enjoy running. No 5:09 1600 runner has any business running that slow on a daily basis. And she shows close to zero competitive drive. This is a girl that is going to frustrate you until she graduates.

Zero competitive drive? What is it about "loves to race" that you don't understand? I suggest you read threads in the future before responding. That way you may not seem quite so uninformed.

OP here. Above was not me but that's what I get for not registering.

She runs a 63 400 and 28 200m.

She really does enjoy racing though, especially big races. No strong senior leaders on the team right now, which would help the situation.

Whattado Now wrote:

OP here. Above was not me but that's what I get for not registering.

She runs a 63 400 and 28 200m.

She really does enjoy racing though, especially big races. No strong senior leaders on the team right now, which would help the situation.

Something is obviously off, otherwise this thread would have never started.

63 for 400 lines up well with her 1600 time and doesn't indicate she's a sprinter who has moved up to distance.

Maybe it's something simple going on, such as her not getting enough sleep on a day to day basis and therefore she can't go very deep as often as people normally can. Ask her to do her best to think about how much sleep she has gotten in total over the last month. Then look at the average per day and get back to us if possible.

Well it's summertime and she's a typical teenager, so she sleeps about 12 hours a day. During the school year that drops to maybe 7-8 hours/night depending on her homework load. Like most kids, she'll nap during some classes.

In short, I don't think there's anything "wrong" here. Just because she trains at a slower pace than what I think is optimal does not mean she is ill. Why would you suggest such a thing? You don't know her.