Update to how i am - Worse then ever.

Thanks I was waiting for you to reply before I headed to bed. I really want that school record I ran once in XC a 60 flat 400 and it felt real easy as well only that 1 time of course but still haha

Now how much should I eat of those fruits/veggies and also meat?

I would like to get on a schedule to follow. I don't really eat sweets/chips so not sure where I have gone wrong with my eating haha other then no veggies/fruits.

I'll def add more greens to my sandwiches though.

I'll see your post tomorrow its 11 right now and I am tired, or email me:

Thanks a ton if that was your last reply!!

AH another question (screw not being able to edit my previous post)

How does oatmeal sound to you? or pancakes?

I usually have oatmeal every morning and here/there pancakes with bananas mixed inside of them.

Oatmeal is fine and so are pancakes. As long as they are not drenched in butter and syrup.

You should be eating a good amount of veggies. You'll probably poop A LOT more than you are used to, and this might be a pain, but it is well worth it to become fast.

But again, besides eating healthy, the number 1 most important thing is to maintain that calorie deficit. When you go to bed every night you might be hungry. That is what you want.

Your weight is not the immediate problem. People telling you to lose 15 pounds are giving bad advice, though in the long term you'll be faster around 150 (not 135 - what the hell? I'm 5'10 and would be dying at 135). Losing a bunch of weight, especially at 17, is a great way to get injured and burned out.

You just aren't racing well - if you can do 20x400 at that pace, you can run a mile under 5:00. I was killing myself running 12x400 @ 72 when I first broke 5, and had plenty of XC races go out under 5:20. My point here is that I was not capable of doing the workouts you're doing, but ran over 30 seconds faster. That points to poor racing being the issue.

Trying to deal wrote:

I changed my diet completely.

I ate extremely healthy, lots and lots of fruit and veggies and started running a 500 calorie deficit every day. Running a 500 calorie deficit a day allows you to lose 1 pound per week. If you actually adhere to your diet, then in 3 months you will have lost around 12 pounds. In 5 months, you will have lost 20 pounds and I promise you will be much faster. By the time track season rolls around in March you will be a lean mean fighting machine.

Curiously enough, I actually started to lose weight about a week into October when I did it. Very similiar.

While I don't necessarily agree with an arbitrary number like 140, I very much agree with the losing weight and how to do it.

The above is a very good, very sustainable way to lose weight while also being able to maintain your current training schedule.

Good luck OP!

Trying to deal wrote:

Do not eat:

Any fast food, including pizza.

Any highly processed foods: Oatmeal cream pies, oreos, Reese's, Kit-kats, potato chips, etc (This list is pages long)

In a nutshell, if you think it's bad for you, it probably is. If it is drenched in butter, it's probably not something you want to eat.

It's all about the calorie deficit my friend. You will be hungry. But I'll bet even after just one month of eating like this you will already be significantly faster.

I don't really agree with this post, though. You're in hs man, eat some foods you enjoy every once in a while! Becoming an absolute slave to your diet at this point is just unnecessary and is a good way to start getting really irritated with everything.

As stated, it's all about the calorie deficit. 500 calories of pizza is the amount of calories as 500 calories of broccoli, yeah? That's not to say eat pizza all the time, but it is to say that eating it once in a while is PERFECTLY FINE. Just like everything else!

what's with all the diet advice? I'm 6 feet, 160 and have run 500 and 1700. Yet I could not touch your 400 pr or any of those crazy workouts. You sir, are a sprinter (or a lier).

Isn't calorie deficit sometimes bad for you? I know a friend on the team that has been literally eating a banana/orange for lunch,breakfest,dinner only and he literally looks sick all the time/weak...

I am surprised no1 has commented on it might be the coaches workout i guess hes doing the right thing?

No i am not lying about the 400's.

I had a talk with one of my coaches today..and he said its all mental. I think too much about other peoples times, their pace, what is going on, is there hills, what if i do bad, blah blah blah blah. Just need to run. But Idk how to just not "think"

He gave me a pep talk how theres countless of atheletes he has trained and very few have been in the same shape as I have been. He's seen crappy kids run 17/18 just through sheer will power. Those kids that run 17/18 in our district aren't even as half as fit as I am to run those 400's but yet I am running 21mins...

You're a growing teenager; there's no need to be starving yourself. If you run more, you'll increase your endurance(which is clearly lacking) and lose weight naturally.

Yeah, OK wrote:

You're a growing teenager; there's no need to be starving yourself. If you run more, you'll increase your endurance(which is clearly lacking) and lose weight naturally.

How do I lack endurance though? I can run 10miles, did it last wednesday at about 1hour and 30minutes

I ran throughout the summer, been doing XC now for 3 years (this is my 3rd year) and long distance during track..

I've been thinking I would lose weight naturally but apparently that isn't the case with me.. cause I even do ab workouts with the team esp. through track season we did it every day...

It sounds like you aren't mentally comfortable racing at your goal 5k pace. Maybe you're not really practicing running at race pace...too much of the fast intervals and long slow stuff? Some people need to learn what racing feels like before they can "go for it".

Too much running that's too fast or too slow. People forget that it's how well you run 4 laps in a row with no rest, not 20 laps with water breaks and a back rub.

You're a head case. You have race anxiety. Like someone above said, practice running at race pace. If you run a 90 minute 10 mile and 20x400s at the times you say, you can easily break 5 for the mile. You don't need to lose weight. You are still growing, don't deprive yourself of nutrition. You won't develop properly if you do.

Maybe do a time trial by yourself. You are certainly in condition to do a 5:30 mile. Goto the track by yourself. Run even splits. You should be confident you can run two 2:45 half miles back to back with no rest if you doing 20x400 @ 70 to 76 sec with 2 min rest.

In other words, as was said previously, grow some balls.

SMJO wrote:

Too much running that's too fast or too slow. People forget that it's how well you run 4 laps in a row with no rest, not 20 laps with water breaks and a back rub.

Haha wish I got a back rub. Well I did do 15 400's with 1min break b/t each one and 2mins every 5 (but that one was extra tough whoever didn't come 1st had to do pushups) and they were 67-75s each.

I just don't get how I can do that kind of a workout but not beat my 5:29 mile....

iiiii wrote:

It sounds like you aren't mentally comfortable racing at your goal 5k pace. Maybe you're not really practicing running at race pace...too much of the fast intervals and long slow stuff? Some people need to learn what racing feels like before they can "go for it".

For my race pace I should know what 6minutes feels like, not 75s 400's right? Doesn't that indicate I can do it though??

You're a fast twitch guy (go find the Haad thread). So all these 400 with rest between aren't gonna challenge you or help you with your primary weakness. Though if your coach throws enough of them at you you'll certainly be too burned out to race well. You need longer continuous fast stuff to actually improve aerobically (10 miles in 90 minutes is not evidence of aerobic strength).

20-40+ minute tempo runs at paces that are quick but not too hard. Progression runs. Learn to run quickly without feeling like you have to push to hold the pace. Spend quality time at these paces.

My guess is that your summer miles didn't included much in the 6:30-7:30 min/mile range....

Don't imagine weight loss is a magic solution. You're aerobically under trained. Starving yourself isn't gonna fix that. Though certainly more veggies and cutting out junk (including most simple sugars) is always fine.

danxorhs wrote:

Yeah, OK wrote:

You're a growing teenager; there's no need to be starving yourself. If you run more, you'll increase your endurance(which is clearly lacking) and lose weight naturally.

How do I lack endurance though? I can run 10miles, did it last wednesday at about 1hour and 30minutes

I ran throughout the summer, been doing XC now for 3 years (this is my 3rd year) and long distance during track..

I've been thinking I would lose weight naturally but apparently that isn't the case with me.. cause I even do ab workouts with the team esp. through track season we did it every day...

Am I missing something here? 90 minutes for a 10 mile run is 9 minute mile pace, no? How does that show you have endurance? In fact, it shows the complete opposite.

P.S. Stop racing workouts.

ordersofmagnitude wrote:

You're a fast twitch guy (go find the Haad thread).

20-40+ minute tempo runs at paces that are quick but not too hard. Progression runs.

My guess is that your summer miles didn't included much in the 6:30-7:30 min/mile range....

Hmm.. thanks for this, idk what haad threat you are talking about tried to google it couldn't find it.

How can i tell my coach this though?

And yeah my miles weren't 6:30-7:30 thats for sure. I'll say about 8-8:30.

What determines if you are good aerobically then? For the 800 do I even require much aerobic ability? And fast-twitch muscles? I've heard its 50/50.

Yeah, OK wrote:

Am I missing something here? 90 minutes for a 10 mile run is 9 minute mile pace, no? How does that show you have endurance? In fact, it shows the complete opposite.

P.S. Stop racing workouts.

Ah my bad. I thought a person being able to even run 10miles was a sign of good endurance at least...

It's not that I am racing, my coach wants me to hit those times/or beat certain people... How do I just slow down and say "i am going to slow down because the people on letsrun told me to"

You keep using the phrase "running hard" in your posts.

Forget that phrase. There's running fast, and there's hard effort. Speed is not effort.

Learn to run more efficiently at any given pace. After all those 70-75 quarters, sub-5 pace should be nothing to you. If they didn't get any easier, then for some reason, you're not adapting.

I think form adapts sooner than endurance. Try doing those workouts at the same times, but with as little effort as possible, and you'll force your form to get more efficient. If you can run a 75 without crossing lactate threshold, then 5:20 should be no problem at all.

Forget losing weight too, you'll never recover from those brutal workouts if you don't eat enough. If anything, eat more.

danxorhs wrote:

Yeah, OK wrote:

You're a growing teenager; there's no need to be starving yourself. If you run more, you'll increase your endurance(which is clearly lacking) and lose weight naturally.

How do I lack endurance though? I can run 10miles, did it last wednesday at about 1hour and 30minutes

I ran throughout the summer, been doing XC now for 3 years (this is my 3rd year) and long distance during track..

I've been thinking I would lose weight naturally but apparently that isn't the case with me.. cause I even do ab workouts with the team esp. through track season we did it every day...

Dude, don't starve yourself like the other guy. If you run longer miles every day, then your body will adapt. How? By losing weight. Don't starve yourself, you're not going to recover. Slow twitch and fast twitch muscles both need to be fed and can't grow without carbs and protein. Just do long runs. You can do all these awesome track workouts, maybe your body doesn't respond to low-mileage. Increase it...4 miles a day up to 7 miles, and a 10 miler included obviously isn't enough for you. Crank up the mileage wisely, and for god's sake I don't know how all that strength training is going to help you for the mile. Look at Hicham El Guerrouj and his strength training. It was all legs, back, and abs. And he looked skinny as hell. Increase your mileage, lose weight in the process, keep eating, win.