5:00 mile and 400 times? Help please.

you should probably be able to at least 61 or 62 for a flat-out 400

Flat out 62 is probably right. But you could probably break 5 and never run a quarter under 70 in training.

toivo wrote:

Just for laughs, at 55, I've decided to really go for one last sub-5:00 mile. It may be impossible...I haven't done it since 47.

So, I'm wondering what I should try to get down to for a flat-out 400-- :67?

...and, how about the classic 8-10 X 400? What average time would indicate that I am ready for a sub-5?

What kind of rest are you taking on those 400s? If you are doing a 100 meter jog and doing them straight through then 73-74 should probably do it.

As far as 1 quarter I personally think that I would shoot for sub 60. Even if that is a little faster than needed, it is a nice round number to shoot for and breaking it would give you a big confidence boost.

Don't forget the longer intervals and shorter tempo runs in your training. Good luck.

6-8 72s with a 2 min rest ought to get you there.

Come on guys... I'm almost 56!

I haven't seen a sub-60 in decades.

My usual rest between 400's is a 200 meter jog.

I did 8 in 77 the other day and feel I need 74's to run sub-5:00.

Just curious, what is your best mile? I'm assuming it was over 30 years ago, right?

Are you going to do it at a track, or at one of those straight, often downhill, mile road races?

For the record, I'm also 55, and don't think I'll ever see the other side of 5 minutes. By the way, sub 5 at 47 is quite good.

If it helps, I just broke 5 at the fifth avenue mile in my early 40s and never ran faster than 72 in training. And that was the first sub 5 I ran since high school.

I doubt I could run a 67 all out.

So if you have the aerobic base, you don't need raw speed so much as you need pain tolerance and efficiency.

At the fifth ave mile 7 men over age 50 broke 5.

Seriously good advice here. At age 55 there is no way you will be able to hit those 400 times as a requisite to sub 5. Aging means less and less speed while endurance diminishes at a much slower rate. 72 will work.

Regarding efficiency, maintaining higher stride rate is key as you age.

I am 42 5-11 188. This year I ran 60.4 for 400 and 5:05 for a complete mile. I can do 8 400's with a 2 minute rest in 72-73 and I think next time I get to run a mile I will break 5. My mile was 72,81,81,71 and I started my kick to late.

I got beat in this race by older masters with must less flat speed but great experience,economy,courage etc. If you can run a flat 400 in 64 and you do the long intervals and short tempo's like that other poster wrote you can break 5.

SilkySlim wrote:

Flat out 62 is probably right. But you could probably break 5 and never run a quarter under 70 in training.

When I was younger I ran sub 5 without running a quarter under 75 in training (maybe even 80...). i think i mostly followed jack daniels... thus i am still a fan of volume over speed (nor "race pace" work).

I am normally right at about 5:00 for the mile and occasionaly I have been thrown in the 4x4 and split 62 seconds. So I would say you def need to be able to run under 65.

This year at age 51, I ran 60 flat twice on separate occasions in this workout (8 x 100, full recover, 1 x 400). I ran a track mile 4:58 and a road mile 4:59. Hope that helps.

This year I ran ALL my training at 7:00 per mile. 50-60 easy miles per week.

Once in March, for grins, I ran a flat out 400: 65. It hurt.

In June I entered an open mile at a track meet and went 4:48.

Caveat: I just turned 26.

Hey this thread is exactly what I am looking for.

I turn 50 in a week, and one of my birthday resolutions is to run sub 5 while I'm 50. Even though that gives me a year, it's not going to be easy. I have been slowly getting back into it since January. I'm at about 20 mpw now and I think the key for me is to raise my mileage to about 40-50. I am only doing "speed" work once a week now. Most of it is longer close to VO2 max type stuff (like 5 x 1200's at 5k pace). I also just added a weekly tempo run about 4 weeks ago. That tempo run is making a big difference. My times in my VO2 sessions are really improving.

Nevertheless, despite no pure speed work, I just ran a 68 400 which surprised me. Personally, I think at this age that's good enough on the 400m speed side. I am sure if I concentrated purely on 400m work I could get it down a bit more but what's the point? I agree with the other posters who say the 400/mile connection while important, isn't quite the same when you are older.

I think a more telling thing would be to be able to break 2:20 for 800. That's a good combo speed endurance marker.

You talk about doing the "classic" 8-10 by 400's. Once I hit 40mpw, I will start incorporating some of those. However, I think it's very important at our age to also do things like 12-16 x 200's at slightly faster paces (I'd like to work to a 34 average).

Good luck to all in our quest!!

toivo wrote:

Come on guys... I'm almost 56!

I haven't seen a sub-60 in decades.

My usual rest between 400's is a 200 meter jog.

I did 8 in 77 the other day and feel I need 74's to run sub-5:00.

I agree with a lot of folks on here I think to break 5 should be able to run 72ish comfortably. A good indicator would also be an 800 if you can come through in sub 2:30 and feel like you had more you will be ready. Do like 3 or 4 800's for a work out and see where your at.

For what it's worth, this is EXACTLY the way threads on LR should be. Civil posts; positive input; running related; no one is getting ripped or ridiculed for pursuing a goal.

Good stuff. Thank you!

that's an excellent point on the importance of 200s at slightly faster than race pace.

Running 75 secs per lap has to feel somewhat comfortable, and the best way to get comfortable at running 75s is running at faster than that pace, even for a short distance.

Good thread. I'm 49 and turn 50 in June. Didn't start running till my mid 30's and even then just plodded until the last 3 years. So after running lots of marathons I decided I wanted to see if I could hit a sub-5 mile before I turned 50. Started last year and first mile was 5:43. After a year of not really training for the mile (but running 50-65 mpw for distance running) I've run several miles, 400's, 800's, 1500's at local All Comers meets. Current PRs are

400 - 67.5

800 - 2:29

1500 - 4:55

mile - 5:25

This stuff is HARD! I have a lot more appreciation of guys that can run a sub-5 mile. The 1500 was my last race of the summer meet - and I think it says my mile time MIGHT be under 5:20 now. I realize now that sub-5 may not be in the cards for me but I'll be doing some mild speed training starting in December with the goal of 5:15 by the end of the winter meets (February). I was thinking of doing the following session: 4X200 with 200 jog, 3X600 with 200 jog, 4X200 with 200 jog - all run at current 1500m pace. These are pretty easy for me to recover from. I don't like doing 800's (you may as well just run the full 1500m) but 600's should give you some stamina work which for an old guy is probably what is needed rather than pure speed.