Sub 1:50 800m Training

I guess my question regarding Coe's form and training is this: what can we learn from the flaws in his training, such that we can avoid accumulating the same dysfunctions that he did?

I barely eclipsed the 1:50 mark in high school (1:49.98). I never did improve upon that time but that's a whole other story.. At that time, I was training on my own and using Bill Bowerman's "Coaching Track & Field" book. Although the book wasn't a huge advocate on weights, I often made 3-4 trips to the gym each week for resistance and core training. The exercises that I found most beneficial to me as an 800m runner were, jumping split squats w/ weight, walking lunges w/weight, single leg box jumps focusing on explosion, double leg box jumps, single leg jumping squats (not sure what they are actually called, but high repetitions!), quick feet onto a box (kind of like running up a hill..increase exercise time each week..you will be surprised at how much you can improve in a short amount of time.) I believe alot of my success in being able to run a fast 800m was due in large part to the overall strength of my legs. I had my dad build me a sturdy wooden box outside our house (about knee high) to work out on. My upper body was pretty strong but I noticed that I gained alot of unnecessary bulk during the lifting process. I wouldn't recommend leaving out the upper body completely, but never forget about your legs!!

once upon a time,

So, I guess for you, the missing ingredient was specific physical strength, which contributes to coordination at race pace also. Same experience as Seb Coe, I think.

How much of your previous best did you cut down from as a result of incorporating these strength workouts? Were you already quite close to breaking 1:50?

once upon a time,

Why did you never improve?

OldSub4,

on about 25-30 miles a week (only did that for like 3 weeks), did a 2mile tt on friday, 538-535..11:13, felt good and relaxed (no kick, just effort based).

however my foot was acting up again and i took monday tuesday and now today off...hopefully tomorrow go back at it. got my orthodics monday too so i just gotta break em in.

JColeman,

Could your problem lie with shortened hip flexors and/or adductors on the affected leg? This would lead to a pelvic tilt on your troubled side, which can cause sciatic nerve impingement (and tons of other issues).

Bump so I can find this later!

Hey all again, thread seems to have died down a little... I'm still looking for some ideas, or specific weight training exercises that you guys have felt as 800m runners, or even milers, have helped your form, or with just pure speed/strength? I've taken someone's suggestion of Bulgarian Split squats, and have noticed an increase in my hip and groin mobility/flexibility! Now, i'm looking for speed/strength lifting exercises. Thanks again!

Anbessa

I think core stuff is the most important, as well as exercises for the quads, glutes and hamstrings. Weightlifting for the calf muscles I find to be counter productive-the calves are primarily for storing and then releasing energy, and bulky calves take more energy to pull through during the recovery phase. For calves stick to pylos and bounding type exercises which reinforce storing/releasing energy. Stay away from the gym calf machine, they will just bulk up your calves, and i've never seen a fast runner with HUGE calves, except maybe Snell.

The most important thing to keep in mind when lifting is injury prevention. Hills and pylos strengthen too but in a different way then weightlifting do. Keep everything tight but flexible, supple and in alignment, and you will most likely remain injury free.

I would focus on the hips, at least for me most injuries start from there, ie many foot/shin injuries are from compensating for bad pelvic tilt/muscle imbalances.

wat do u guys think about doing hills on the tread mill?

I can't help myself. Your post is almost entirely wrong.

The only way to produce anabolism/hypertrophy is to have a large caloric surplus. With the large caloric cost of running AND with resistance training means on top of that, a caloric surplus large enough to produce large increases in size of the calf is extremely difficult at best.

Hills and plyos do not build strength. They're great for the stretch reflex though.

Of course this is just "semantics" (schematics), nothing that applies to the "real" world.

Does anyone have info on the general strength stuff that John Cook had his guys do at George Mason? He had tons of success with 800m type runners.

This happens all the time (myself included). Too much running on one side of the road/track etc. Also we run most of our mileage (regardless of program) at sub-maximal intensities, with hip flexion at 60-80 degrees. This will largely leave out the psoas. The Law of Repetitive Motion kicks in, limiting a lot of peoples hip mobility.

Human beings are built for survival, you can make it go fine, but if it is not taught the right way to go, it'll rely on what is working at that time. Eventually what is working becomes overused, then becomes injured.

I really would have to see the video to know what you are talking about, but from actually working with elite athletes of most ages/sports you'd be surprised how jacked up these people are.

Anthony Colotti wrote:

Hills and plyos do not build strength. They're great for the stretch reflex though.

Of course this is just "semantics" (schematics), nothing that applies to the "real" world.

Sorry, most of my posts are based more on my experience with training myself then pure science, so there are bound to be contridictions.

That's basically what I was trying to say though. Weights, hills and pylos all can have positive effects on a runners performance but do it in different ways. I think the term "strength" is one of the most overused in distance running. Coaches use it all the time. 800 meter runner doing a tempo-building strength. Running up long hills-strength. Marathoner doing a long run-strength. Some runners are even labeled as "strength runners". It's gotten a little out of hand, and I've certainly been guilty of using the term incorrectly myself.

Personally, a lot of how my legs feel is the ratio of hills, sprints, pylos and weights in the previous weeks and months. Different stresses cause different adaptions.

Would you agree with the injury prevention stuff though?

But how to integrate it into a weekly schedule? How much of each routine, what days, etc?

Anthony Colotti wrote:

Hills and plyos do not build strength.

Well it sure feels like they do...

*adaptations

before someone else catches it

Mr Colotti,

Here's the clip if you are still interested. "Born to Run" part 1, around 3:50 min mark the camera focuses on Coe's legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbol-wIh5vg

foomiler wrote:

Mr Colotti,

Here's the clip if you are still interested. "Born to Run" part 1, around 3:50 min mark the camera focuses on Coe's legs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbol-wIh5vg

He appears to have a leg length or timing imbalance.