Landy and Cerutty

Cerutty took him from 4:40 to about 4:10. During Helsinki Landy met Zatopek and decided to train like him. He ran vast amounts of 600 yard intervals at night on a track near his home. After 10 weeks of doing that (without Cerutty) he ran 4:02.1 (59,62,62,59). He then ran 4:02-4:04 about 7-10 times. Then he traveled to a fast track with competition (Chataway) and ran 3:57.9. (58,60,58,62). Just before that he had ran a mile with splits of 56,59,62,65.

I think the breakup had to do with Cerutty yelling at Landy in front of his parents for not qualifying for the final after Landy ran his 4:02. Something like "couldn't qualify for a final in 4:10 and comes home like a whipped dog then does this"

I would say that Landy learning about the more scientific training of Zatopek caused him to realize how stupid it was running around barefoot with sticks yelling like indians. I think Landy just coached himself after that and mainly trained alone. Cerutty is definitly a good coach though-after all he did train Herb Elliot.

Ron Clarke said that Cerutty never had much to do with Landy's progress. And I think that 600 yards or metres was around a grass field. Clarke tells the story of the milkman driving by in the early morning, watching Landy running like mad around the park, and yelling out, "Who do you think you are, John Landy???"

Clarke also claimed that Elliot was so amazingly talented that "His Grandmother could have coached him, and become the World's Best Distance Coach". Apparently Elliot showed up and as a Youth (not sure what age exactly), ran 1:52 on a grass track after 2 weeks of training.

I believe that too. Ceruttys entertaining and charismatic ways led to him being hugely overrated in running. Take away a lucky hook-up with Elliot and there's precious little to show (OK Betty Cuthbert, but he had less of an influence there)

His crunchy philosophy was by no means original, even in the 50's, and much of his training philosophies were derivative from others (Lydiard Stampfl).

i think you all are a bit misguided/misinformed (?) regarding cerutty's training. it was much, much more than "running around barefoot with sticks yelling like indians". as someone who has been lucky enough to get to know herb, obviously percy's training philosophy has been discussed. long runs(30 miles at times), multiple repeats over sand dune hills, strict interval training, and weight lifting were important. he was always trying something new, but the basic tenets of his training were no different than those today. he believed in hard, hard work and lots of it. herb said that he used to drag himself through the same workouts that he put the lads through, sometimes looking like warmed over death. though much more important according to herb, was the inspiration that percy tried to instill inside his athletes or those who trained with him. i would ask my athlete the same question..."you have run 4.02, but you can't qualify in 4.10"? i think you guys forget all the other athletes that were also in the same stable as herb- for example, murray halberg also spent quite a few weekends with herb and the boys on the coast. landy did start with the multiple 600 repeats (sometimes upwards of 16 to 20 according to a discussion i had with him in melbourne in '92). that was part of his training buildup for 1954 (?), i believe. he ran a hard 7 mile route each day prior to that for i don't know how long at anywhere from 5.20 to 6 min a mile. for the record, that wasn't the milkman that stopped and yelled at landy either. it was a man coming home from an overnight drunk while landy had just nipped off to the road because the man couldn't drive a straight line. i really think you might give credit where credit is due. no doubt, cerutty seemed quite the egomaniac, though he also produced some real champions.

Great post Portsea. Thanks for sharing.

You obviously know nothing about the man, the athletes he coached, nor even the time period in which he did it. (Pottage, Stanley, Perry, Stephens, Power, Thomas, Agostini, Macmillan etc would all disagree with you) Most of the things preached by Cerutty did not change all that much from the early 1940's. His philosophies were certainly original and wouldn't become commonplace for another 2-3 decades.

ray wrote:

You obviously know nothing about the man, the athletes he coached, nor even the time period in which he did it. (Pottage, Stanley, Perry, Stephens, Power, Thomas, Agostini, Macmillan etc would all disagree with you) Most of the things preached by Cerutty did not change all that much from the early 1940's. His philosophies were certainly original and wouldn't become commonplace for another 2-3 decades.

good to "hear" your voice, one with insight to Oz. hope all is well.

Read The Perfect Mile by Neal Bascomb. Great book and t details Landy's running. Mostly he was self coached.

There were some little things to, like when he had that runner, running the mile on a very hot day sit in the shade while the other runners were boiling in the sun warming, up and then he had him pour a cup of cold water over his head at the starting line.

Reminded me of the cool water vests or whatever it was Deena wore before her olympic marathon.

My only comments on this thread are direct quotes from Ron Clarke, who was not only there at the time, but well-acquainted with Landy, Elliot, Cerutty, et al.

I tend to believe he knows a few things about distance running in Australia in the 50's and 60's.

I was not responding to you, but rather Jamie S. I hope you didn't take it that way. I knew Ron well and actually worked for him for some time. He had his issues with Cerutty. I corresponded with Perc and as I've said on here before, was on my way to Australia when I heard that he had died.

He was a nut case, no question, but he was also certainly well ahead of his time in many respects. I would consider him, Nakamura, "Chicks" Hensley, and Fred Wilt to be 4 coaches who don't get nearly the respect that they deserve. All very innovative and true students of the sport.

He also advocated 60 mile weekends-15 miles twice on saturday and sunday. I have no doubt that Landy's success as an athelete was partly because of the endurance he gained from training with Cerutty. Endurance for a few years then speed a la kenyan style.

Good to hear from you as well WC. Stay positive, spring is on it's way!