Illinois vs California at Footlocker for the win

I am not a 'specialist' in this stuff, but I think that the Ill course is (was?) 0.03 short of 3 miles, or about 8 seconds. 14:24 is worth about 13:53+ and his 3-mile was worked out to be 13:55 at pace (but the incremental \distance should incorporate incremental slowing). Thus, the mark is substantially faster than Virgin's mark. However, I think I remember someone saying the conditions were not great for Virgin, but I might be thinking of his 2-mile track time.

The CA courses is downhill net first mile and then back up the rest of the race, hence the un-even splits.

Yes the Detweiller course was short for a while before a proper re-lengthening in 2003. It is now a full 3.00, so Derrick's time is better than Virgin's.

The history on the woodward course is what I believe unmatched by other courses in the nation. You see, The Mt. Sac course record was something that people always had hopes would be broken because it seems reachable but the woodward park course record had always been looked upon as untouchable. I mean you were talking about Dameowrth, Davis, Quintana, and others. All FL winners. Nobody thought it would ever be broken until saturday where it was not only beaten, but smashed, and the weather was crap. All the other guys who ran stellar times had great weather for the most part on this course, I mean it's fresno, CA. Thats always what you expect around this time of year. I am by no means putting down Illinois course but Woodward Park is a VERY challenging course.

hate to disappoint, but the course derrick ran this year has been changed from the course used from 2003-2006. This has not been noted by the IHSA or significantly by anyone else. It has been wheeled off to be very close to the same distance as the pre-2003 course. Still a great run!

anonymous wrote:

The history on the woodward course is what I believe unmatched by other courses in the nation. You see, The Mt. Sac course record was something that people always had hopes would be broken because it seems reachable but the woodward park course record had always been looked upon as untouchable. I mean you were talking about Dameowrth, Davis, Quintana, and others. All FL winners. Nobody thought it would ever be broken until saturday where it was not only beaten, but smashed, and the weather was crap. All the other guys who ran stellar times had great weather for the most part on this course, I mean it's fresno, CA. Thats always what you expect around this time of year. I am by no means putting down Illinois course but Woodward Park is a VERY challenging course.

Great post man! Im originally from cali, (grew up close to fresno and raced there a lot in HS) so I understand what germans time means, but I think that to people outside of Cali its hard to grasp just how big a performance that was by german. Im glad wejo and rojo understand thats its worthy of front page letsrun.com news. I never in a hundred years thought i would see that type of time posted by a HS kid. Just amazing.

yeah i don't think people outside of illinois understand how big of a performance derrick's was..the last few years guys like WITHROW/SAGE/TORRES have run pedestrian times compared to what derrick just ran and derrick ran it on a longer course!! not to mention derrick ran 1 second slower on a longer course then CRAIG VIRGIN! for those of you not familiar he was a 2 time WORLD CROSS COUNTRY CHAMPION!!!!! 'nuff said

"hate to disappoint, but the course derrick ran this year has been changed from the course used from 2003-2006. This has not been noted by the IHSA or significantly by anyone else. It has been wheeled off to be very close to the same distance as the pre-2003 course. Still a great run!\"

^ im pretty sure you just made this up

fernandez's run is still significantly better though

FERNANDEZ WENT OUT IN 4:28, NOT 4:22. I was at the mile mark.

OK, so Derrick ran a couple seconds faster than Virgin, and 15-20 ahead of Spivey/Sage/Torres. Those four are the only "All-Timers" on that list - Withrow is ALMOST at their level, but so I don't start any bickering on that, we'll throw in 30 seconds ahead of Withrow. Don't know much about Graves/Walters, so I'll assume they're just a couple mid/back-pack FL caliber guys who had GREAT races that day. Basically, Derrick ran a time comparable to Virgin's. Yes, that's VERY impressive. Incredibly impressive. BUT. Fernandez ran 16 seconds faster than ANYONE has ever ran on that course, and this includes Marc Davis, Dameworth, Quintana, Hall, Matt Davis, etc. Derrick at best ran 5 seconds "faster" than Virgin. This would be like Derrick running sub 13:45 or so for the new full length course.

Not saying Derrick can't beat Fernandez, but Fernandez definitely had the better run when you compare those two.

Illinois and it's stupid state course.

Prepare to be destroyed. Breaking the course record by 14 seconds in CA is absolutely NUTS. Illinois can't hold a candle.

yeah your right...no history in Illinois on the stupid state meet course. It's always, cali, cali, cali. Nothing is ever as good as California performances. So this is perfect...Illinois best vs California's best

I like our chances

I would say Fernandez's performance was about 10 seconds better than Derricks. And on a perfect day for both of them I agree everyone else is running for third, however if they are even just a little bit off the shape they were when they ran states, Puskedra will beat them.

Tom Graves wasnt a FL midpacker, try to find the website always linked on here that has all the old school pics and race results.

Illinois fan wrote:

I like our chances

Who are you, the governor?

believe what you want, but i've been measuring the state course the last 10 years.

The original Mt.Sac 3 mile course record has not been broken. Even with time conversions to the new course, it still the record.

http://dyestatcal.com/rank/xc2005/October/31MtSACAllTime.htm

and-

http://prep.caltrack.com/2001crosscountrynotes/011020MtSACAlteredCourseRG.htm

You forgot Cabral, 15:09 CR at Vanny (McDougal's course was slightly different, but either way 15:08 and 15:09 are pretty damn close), and Puskedra who ran a 14:20 3 mi (yeah, not nearly as fast as Derrick, but this was at altitude in mid-season). Puskedra, Cabral, Lowe and Fernandez are undefeated, Derrick lost to Fout but I'm sure he wasn't really trying so I'll give him that. I think it'll look like this-

(No order for these, just who I think will be in each "group")

Group 1:

Fernandez

Derrick

Cabral

Puskedra

5-10 sec gap here

Group 2:

Lowe

Finnerty

Fout

another 5-15 second gap here

The rest of the field.

This year's Foot Locker boys race appears to be the best ever in the making. I was there to see Fernandez' run last weekend in Fresno. Amazing run to say the least. I've never seen Derrick run, but his time @ the ILL state meet is amazing as well. I'm not sure that it'll be a two man race though. Earlier in the season I watched Puskedra run 14:40's in Boise all by himself on a course that I thought was about 20+ seconds SLOWER than the CA State course. If this is the case, Puskedra could have the same type of tools that these other two have going. What we're seeing here is the making for the "perfect storm" I wish I could be in San Diego in 2 weeks. This race should be epic!