Most women record are soft because they have just trained seriously in 40-50 years and they are far less competitive as a gender . They are far less competitive than men in a global perspective.
SO WHO'S RECORD WAS MORE IMPRESSIVE TODAY?? RANK THEM 1-2-3
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Asker of questions wrote:
Jakob's 7:54
Faith's 14:05
Girma's 7:52
I say
1. Girma
2. Faith Kipyegon
3. Jakob
Faith - 1st
Girma -2nd
Jakob - 3rd
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Antelope111 wrote:
this makes no logical sense wrote:
So, if someone ran 1490 meters in 3:15 it would not be impressive because "it's a novelty event"? This mentality is just silly and makes absolutely zero sense. Regardless of whether or not the 2 mile is run frequently, it was an insane performance and the outright highlight of the meet.
The n is lower. Fewer people running the event and fewer races and fewer WR attempts equals fewer opportunities for an outlier WR to be set. It also means IAAF conversion charts are less reliable, because the data isn’t there. People aren’t training for 3000s or peaking for 3000s like they are for 1500s and 5000s.
We don't need IAAF tables to know that a guy who splitted 7:21 for a 3000 in a longer race is the best perfomer of last night. Nor we need thousands of people running the 2miles. It was the best performance yesterday. Not close!
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Impala31 wrote:
Antelope111 wrote:
The n is lower. Fewer people running the event and fewer races and fewer WR attempts equals fewer opportunities for an outlier WR to be set. It also means IAAF conversion charts are less reliable, because the data isn’t there. People aren’t training for 3000s or peaking for 3000s like they are for 1500s and 5000s.
We don't need IAAF tables to know that a guy who splitted 7:21 for a 3000 in a longer race is the best perfomer of last night. Nor we need thousands of people running the 2miles. It was the best performance yesterday. Not close!
You don’t need thousands of people. Just the top people specifically training for and attempting to break that record on a consistent basis. How many times did guys like El G or Bekele or Haille train for and seriously go after that record compared to going after fast 1500s or 5000s? Not much. It’s just math.
The good thing is that if his 2 mile performance is as amazing as some say it is, he should be able to go after and get either the 15 or the 5, and then it won’t really matter.
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womanizer wrote:
Most women record are soft because they have just trained seriously in 40-50 years and they are far less competitive as a gender . They are far less competitive than men in a global perspective.
Yawnnnnnnn
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Just like Jakob Ingebrigtsen's 2 mile can be equated to a faster-than-current-WR performance at 1500m-mile-3,000m-two mile, we can also look up IAAF scoring tables equivalents for Faith Kipygon's performances as well as Lamecha GIrma's. Another interesting thing is to look up an athlete's top 10 lifetime performances based on IAAF scoring tables on World Athletics website. There is a drawback to this, which is that for example if someone ran a super-fast time on a non-record-eligible course (e.g. the Boston marathon; winning world XC; etc.) it would be excluded from consideration.
Jakob & Lamecha are about the same age, 22, 23 this winter. Faith Kipyegon is 29 (with a 5 year old kid). Eliud Kipchoge is ancient. Their top-10 performances as explained above (with listed caveats as well as likely others):
Eliud Kipchoge:
(scroll to the bottom, select to see his best 10 performances across all disciplines) range is 1262-1312, median is 1278 [London Marathon 2016 2:03:05].
Faith Kipyegon
Range is 1252-1295, median is 1262 [Prefontaine Classic 2022 3:52.59]
Lamecha Girma
Range is 1252-1306, median is 1264 [Doha 2023 7:26.18 & Ostrava 2022 7:58.68]
Jakob Ingebrigtsen
Range is 1258-1304, median is 1269 [Tokyo Olympics 2021 3:28.32]
Daniel Komen
Range is 1266-1299, median is 1279 [Stuttgart 1998 7:27.93]
Hicham El Guerrouj
Range is 1283-1302, median is 1290 [Berlin-2000m 1999 4:44.79]
Kenenisa Bekele
Range is 1280-1303, median is 1291
My personal favorite of all time
Haile Gebrselassie
Range is 1275-1300, median is 1286 [Karlruhe Germany 1999 7:26.80]
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Temp__Account wrote:
Komen WR was soft.
Women records are still in the soft area.Honestly they're all pretty equal in my eyes. The steeple is a standard event, and it was a really old record, he beat it by 1.52 seconds. The 5,000m in general I think is more competitive, but women's running is a little less deep historically (there wasn't as many people competing 40 years ago on the world level, so top records are pretty fresh), so you could argue that world records are still figuring themselves out. If she would have smashed the world record then I'd say the 5,000m was better, but it was a small improvement. And then the 2 mile, it's not a standard event so the WR is likely to not be as tough, but he did smash it. Komen's 3k record of 7:20 is a little tougher than his 7:58 2 mile, but now Jakob's 2 mile is right in line with 7:20 3k.
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Faith 14:05 - ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! THAT WAS AWESOME!
Jakob 7:54 - Holy hell! That was great!
Grima 7:52 - Also freaking awesome, but in light of the above two, bumps this down a notch.
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I love it...bit really -- ranking World Records from the meet. Each was the fastest of ALL TIME, and, to me, there's no negative about a WR performance. It is something to be held in awe. Ranking WRs, either set in the same meet or in different meets and even different eras is, and always will be, bogus.
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1. Jakob - this 2 mile WR is nearly the same pace as Komans WR at 3000, which many thought was one of the greatest distance records of all time. Even though the 3k is more frequently run and is shorter. The pacing is just insane at 58.9 per lap for 2 miles unreal. No one was even close, and none of the all time greats have gotten close to this pace for a full two miles. Only 2 people have ever broken 8, and this is over 10 seconds faster than the 5th best person, granted though the distance is run quite infrequently.
2. Kipyegon - this is the most impressive record of the 3 if you go by the fact she just set the 1500m record a few days ago and isn't a 5000m runner. But that said, the women are already running 29:01 for 10K! So the women's world 5k record is soft in comparison until we see it hit 14:00. There is no question that in the right conditions a sub 14 is possible for the women right now. For a 1500 runner to just pop into a 5k and break the record like this just proved it.
3. Girma - Great record for sure, but with 10 men at 7:56 or faster (and 2 others at 7:53) its a big, but incremental improvement. According to the IAAF scoring tables this is not as fast as a performance as Jakob as well (equivalent to a 7:55.6 two mile).
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BYUsed, but not abused wrote:
I love it...bit really -- ranking World Records from the meet. Each was the fastest of ALL TIME, and, to me, there's no negative about a WR performance. It is something to be held in awe. Ranking WRs, either set in the same meet or in different meets and even different eras is, and always will be, bogus.
Only two of them are real World Records. The third one is world best.
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1) 2 Mile world record and anybody saying otherwise is a fool.
2) Steeplechase world record -raced often and quality talent year after year
3) Women's 5K world record -the fact that a woman who barely competes in the event I was able to break the world record tells me that it is soft record before.
After having ranked them all, I was impressed by all of them. I think that any world record is a very hard feat to achieve, for anyone.
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1. Faith - she fought for the win till the end and if not the record would belong to Gidey.
2. Girma
3. Jacob
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I'd like to put it this way. Which of these performances would I like to be capable of running myself? 14:05 as a woman? 7:54 two-mile as a man? 7:52 steeple?
To me, the answer is obvious. I'm running 7:54 for two freakin' miles no contest.
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MatthewXCountry wrote:
1. Jakob - this 2 mile WR is nearly the same pace as Komans WR at 3000, which many thought was one of the greatest distance records of all time. Even though the 3k is more frequently run and is shorter. The pacing is just insane at 58.9 per lap for 2 miles unreal. No one was even close, and none of the all time greats have gotten close to this pace for a full two miles. Only 2 people have ever broken 8, and this is over 10 seconds faster than the 5th best person, granted though the distance is run quite infrequently.
THIS is the problem with super shoes. People are trying to compare today’s times with those of previous generations even though the contexts were completely different. By saying “none of all time greats have gotten close to this pace,” you are implying that Jakob is better than them. Blasphemy!
Give prime Komen or El Guerrouj super shoes for training and racing along with pacing lights, and they would have run faster than Jakob did.
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1 second per lap wrote:
Give prime Komen or El Guerrouj super shoes for training and racing along with pacing lights, and they would have run faster than Jakob did.
You forgot to factor in the EPO testing. Undetectable then, detectable now.
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Maybe not relevant especially but I would think it not so soft since NCAA Championship men were only 1 second under for the winning time.
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My 2 cents Take wrote:
1) 2 Mile world record and anybody saying otherwise is a fool.
2) Steeplechase world record -raced often and quality talent year after year
3) Women's 5K world record -the fact that a woman who barely competes in the event I was able to break the world record tells me that it is soft record before.
After having ranked them all, I was impressed by all of them. I think that any world record is a very hard feat to achieve, for anyone.
Your 2 cents but then everyone is a fool otherwise. I'm having a hard time between Girma and Kipyegon. Trying to hold that WR pace and make those jumps is very demanding. One complaint is the lights -- they are great but not entirely fair to those running past records.
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Jakob's 2M wr is the most impressive not because it beat the record, which was soft compared to Komen's 3k record, by 4.5 seconds, but because it converts (via standard 1.08 factor, which is used to convert 1500 to mile and 3k to 2M and back, factoring in a slight slowdown for the longer distances of each pair) to 7:19.00, 1.67 seconds faster than Komen's 7:20.67 3000m world record, which was considered the strongest world record in men's track. Girma is not far off of this ability, having run a 7:23 indoor world record this year, but I doubt he'd be able to close with a miler like Jakob. Jakob's 6x800m workout (2:00, 2:00/1:55, 1:55/1:49.5, 1:49.5) was so impressive, with 5k world record pace, substantially faster than 3k world record pace, and 0.1s faster than world record 1500m pace per 800m, that I believed when I saw it that he could break every world record from 1500m through 5000m this year, and this 2M really validates that belief, because it is better than Komen's 3k record by a good deal.
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1 second per lap wrote:
Give prime Komen or El Guerrouj super shoes for training and racing along with pacing lights, and they would have run faster than Jakob did.
El Guerrouj started his life training with borrowed shoes.
@xzcvzcxv
I'm very doubtful with these notions of "a miler is faster than a distance runner".
East African have their models in 5000m+, now if you say that Girma has a lesser kick than Inger or Katir, it needs to be proved.
Girma outkicked Katir when he set his 3000m indoor world record because simply Katir had nothing left at that step.
If you say that Coe, Marco Arop or Moula is a better kicker than most of the middle distance runners, I can agree with that.
This post was edited 40 seconds after it was posted.20
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