For those of you thinking Shelby Houlihan doped- explain what you think she was doing

Does it matter? No one here has enough insight to know if Shelby was doping, and if they do think she's doping they've likely formed the opinion only after the positive test.

The rule is the substance can't be in your body. It's a simple clear rule which places the onus on the athlete. It is clear and simple enough to eliminate this kind of post-positive debate that has been raging all week. Was she doping, was it contaminated food? Doesn't matter, it was in her body and that's her responsibility.

I think it's much more likely than not that it is beneficial to runners, otherwise there wouldn't have been so many positive tests over the years.

I find the argument "she would have to be a fool to take nandrolone orally since it clears the system so fast" kind of puzzling, because it would seem to me (a non-doping expert) that clearing the system fast would be exactly what she'd want IF she could still reap some benefit from it.

I'm confident in her guilt, but I really don't have enough info for the specifics of her doping. My best guess is this was a failed attempt at micro dosing. She mistimed it or took more than normal.

We'd all love for the details of the CAS side to come out.

Lol sorry I didn't read your last sentence

Under strict liability, it really doesn't matter what the hell she was doing.

The substance she tested positive for is on the banned list, so the onus is on her to prove that she wasn't cheating. The best she could come up with was some nonsense about offal in something that she didn't order.

She failed to prove where it came from, so cheating cannot be ruled out, so she's banned.

Nothing else matters here.

If the owners of this site could manage to be objective for 5 minutes and see this case how they see cases from any other training group, I doubt we'd have so many threads undermining the integrity of the <election process> oh, sorry, I mean the adverse analytical findings process.

* Shelby Houlihan does not deny steroids were in her body.

* Shelby Houlihan knows EXACTLY how steroids got into her body.

* When police officers or state troopers or sheriff deputy make a D.U.I. arrest, law enforcement are under no obligation to prove how alcohol or drugs got into body of criminal suspect. Letsrun posters & readers are under no obligation to prove how steroids got into Houlihan's system.

At this time, it does not matter. How did steroids get into the systems of Soviet and East German female athletes 1976 & 1980 Olympics? Most are alive. They could tell us if they want to tell us. Shelby Houlihan can tell us. Bottom line, Houlihan will watch Olympics on tv like the rest of us.

The two scenarios are that she really did eat a tainted burrito or that she was cheating. Are you asking for details as to how she actually cheated?

wejo wrote:

It's been acknowledged that the nandrolone Shelby took wasn't injected. Others have said it would be foolish to take it orally as the affects would be minimal.

So for those of you who think Shelby was doping how do you think it got in her system? What was she doing?

And also why would 30 Kenyans test positive for Nandrolone

https://twitter.com/jamie_langley1/status/1405443374237224960?s=21

if it's not helpful to distance runners?

I'm assuming some people are in the camp it was in her system, its' a banned substance they don't care why, but I'm posing the questions to people who think she was doping.

i would think with the private schooling and then expensive ivy education you guys would be smarter than you are

she got busted for nadrolone.....but there are lots of derivatives of that synthetic adrogen

Nandrolone is the parent compound of a large group of AAS. Notable examples include the non-17α-alkylated trenbolone and the 17α-alkylated ethylestrenol (ethylnandrol) and metribolone (R-1881), as well as the 17α-alkylated designer steroids norboletone and tetrahydrogestrinone (THG). The following is list of derivatives of nandrolone that have been developed as AAS:[7]

Non-17α-alkylated derivatives

Marketed

Bolandiol (19-nor-4-androstenediol)

Norclostebol (4-chloro-19-NT)

Oxabolone (4-hydroxy-19-NT)

Trenbolone (δ9,11-19-NT)

Never marketed

7α-Methyl-19-nor-4-androstenedione (MENT dione, trestione)

11β-Methyl-19-nortestosterone (11β-MNT; 11β-methyl-19-NT)

19-Nor-5-androstenediol

19-Nor-5-androstenedione

Bolandione (19-nor-4-androstenedione)

Dienedione (δ9-19-nor-4-androstenedione)

Dienolone (δ9-19-NT)

Dimethandrolone (7α,11β-dimethyl-19-NT)

Methoxydienone (18-methyl-δ2,5(10)-19-NEA 3β-methyl ether)

Trestolone (MENT; 7α-methyl-19-NT)

17α-Alkylated derivatives

Marketed

Ethylestrenol (ethylnandrol; 3-deketo-17α-ethyl-19-NT)

Mibolerone (7α,17α-dimethyl-19-NT)

Norethandrolone (17α-ethyl-19-NT)

Normethandrone (methylestrenolone; 17α-methyl-19-NT)

Propetandrol (17α-ethyl-19-NT 3β-propionate)

Never marketed

Bolenol (3-deketo-17α-ethyl-19-nor-5-androstenediol)

Dimethyltrienolone (7α,17α-dimethyl-δ9,11-19-NT)

Ethyldienolone (17α-ethyl-δ9-19-NT)

Methyldienolone (17α-methyl-δ9-19-NT)

Methylhydroxynandrolone (MOHN, MHN; 4-hydroxy-17α-methyl-19-NT)

Metribolone (methyltrienolone, R-1881; 17α-methyl-δ9,11-19-NT)

Norboletone (17α-ethyl-18-methyl-19-NT)

Tetrahydrogestrinone (THG; 17α-ethyl-18-methyl-δ9,11-19-NT)

my guess is she was on THG, aka the clear, and the metabolites break down to show "nandrolone". according to the chemist who created it, only two vial drops under the tongue was more than sufficient. maybe she used too much on accident.

THG, also known as 17α-ethyl-18-methyl-δ9,11-19-nortestosterone or as 17α-ethyl-18-methylestra-4,9,11-trien-17β-ol-3-one, is a synthetic estrane steroid and a 17α-alkylated derivative of nandrolone (19-nortestosterone). It is a modification of gestrinone (17α-ethynyl-18-methyl-19-nor-δ9,11-testosterone) in which the ethynyl group has been hydrogenated into an ethyl group, thereby converting the steroid from a norethisterone (17α-ethynyl-19-nortestosterone) derivative with weak AR activity into a norethandrolone (17α-ethyl-19-nortestosterone) derivative with powerful AR activity. THG is closely related to RU-2309 (the 17α-methyl variant), trenbolone (δ9,11-19-nortestosterone), metribolone (17α-methyl-δ9,11-19-nortestosterone), and norboletone (17α-ethyl-18-methyl-19-nortestosterone).

not that hard to figure out. no one is using old school nandrolone, they are using new stat of the art derivatives of nandrolone. just like how you bone heads cant figure out why NOP was using Macro doses of vit D and l-carnitine and thyroid TUEs.....

macro doses of vit d and l-carnitine infusions MAXIMIZE micro dosing of andrgens, thyroid meds help keep the thyroid in check while using EPO and HGH and IGF-lr3

only way big names get busted in this day and age is sabotage. gatlin was ducking powell so nike punished him. tyson gay got busted cause he was an adidas guy, now shelby got busted cause al sal was the anonymous whistleblower....he knows when and what she would be taking during the off season base phase cause its the same sh*t he was using. not that hard to see the picture

Not a scientist or expert on this topic at all, so not sure this holds true, but here's my best guess.

If nandrolone clears the system quickly then it seems like a feature of the drug, not a bug. If she was doping, I would guess she was using it to accelerate recovery, not as a performance booster like EPO, etc.

Something along the lines of strategically taking it after particularly hard sessions so it's not a frequent occurrence and would let her bounce back a little quicker.

Can anybody more knowledgeable than me confirm is that's a possible use of nandrolone?

Oodles McDoodles wrote:

Not a scientist or expert on this topic at all, so not sure this holds true, but here's my best guess.

If nandrolone clears the system quickly then it seems like a feature of the drug, not a bug. If she was doping, I would guess she was using it to accelerate recovery, not as a performance booster like EPO, etc.

Something along the lines of strategically taking it after particularly hard sessions so it's not a frequent occurrence and would let her bounce back a little quicker.

Can anybody more knowledgeable than me confirm is that's a possible use of nandrolone?

read what i just posted.

So when I heard it was nandrolone, the first thing that crossed my mind was Linford Christie - I'm a hobbyjogger and sofa surfer and nandrolone isn't some mysterious thing I've never heard of.

Anyway, Linford's burrito excuse was apparently, wait for it.... eating too much avocado.

Seriously?!

https://linfordchristiedopingandhistory.wordpress.com/tag/nandrolone/

wow. brojos just got owned.

Another very viable explanation:

"Conte said nandrolone is often detected when an athlete is taking another banned substance — likely testosterone — that was manufactured in an illicit laboratory that doesn't adhere to strict quality standards and also makes drugs for bodybuilders, who, of course, aren't subject to drug testing (the specifics of Marte's positive test are unknown). Because nandrolone can be detected in such low quantities, cross contamination from using the same equipment to manufacture other substances can happen."

Conte said glassware used to manufacture testosterone had a strict cleaning protocol requiring nitric and perchloric acids and "illicit labs that manufacture testosterone often don't adhere to such rigid standards." Because of this, Conte said, any athlete using drugs from "an underground lab" was running the risk of testing positive for nandrolone.

As Gordon noted, we don't know the details behind Marte's failed drug test, and it is possible we will never know. But nandrolone is a drug that even cheating athletes typically try to avoid.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-head-balco-lab-explains-154650427.html

That Schumacher had never heard of Nandrolone, confirmed that they doped.

There is no way that he didn't know about Nandrolone.

To pretend that he had never heard of it makes it like a confession of doping.

How do you use Nandrolone?

You have to ask Schumacher. Non dopers don't know that kind of stuff.

Oodles McDoodles wrote:

Not a scientist or expert on this topic at all, so not sure this holds true, but here's my best guess.

If nandrolone clears the system quickly then it seems like a feature of the drug, not a bug. If she was doping, I would guess she was using it to accelerate recovery, not as a performance booster like EPO, etc.

Something along the lines of strategically taking it after particularly hard sessions so it's not a frequent occurrence and would let her bounce back a little quicker.

Can anybody more knowledgeable than me confirm is that's a possible use of nandrolone?

This has already been said over and over. She may have used it as a recovery aid. Please do try to keep up mate, and be original;)

[/quote]

read what i just posted.[/quote]

Your version makes more sense - likely to be a remnant of something else than nandrolone itself. Appreciate the exhaustive explanation and backup data in your post

Oodles McDoodles wrote:

Not a scientist or expert on this topic at all, so not sure this holds true, but here's my best guess.

If nandrolone clears the system quickly then it seems like a feature of the drug, not a bug. If she was doping, I would guess she was using it to accelerate recovery, not as a performance booster like EPO, etc.

Something along the lines of strategically taking it after particularly hard sessions so it's not a frequent occurrence and would let her bounce back a little quicker.

Can anybody more knowledgeable than me confirm is that's a possible use of nandrolone?

^This. She was definitely doping as a recovery tool to prevent excessive muscle damage from hard workouts. Nobody does harder workouts than BTC, and this might be why they are able to do them. I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a rerun of the BALCO doping program, with a combination of HGH, THG ("the clear"), and testosterone ("the cream"). I honestly don't think they are using EPO because of how dangerous it is.

Why the hell does it matter HOW she took it? If I get popped for a DUI with a BAC of .14, why does it matter if I was shotgunning beers or doing tequila shots? What matters is that I drank too much and drove impaired. Who cares how I got to that BAC?

The things we know are that (1) the circumstances resulting in a burrito positive require a sequence of events that are approaching lottery odds to have happened and (2) Jerry saying he’s never heard of nandrolone doesn’t even pass the giggle test. He’s really so disconnected from the sport that he’s never heard of any of those 50 Kenyan nandrolone positives? He’s really never seen the banned substances list despite coaching at the elite level for years, if not decades?

If your kid came home after testing positive for and tried to sell you the Burrito Theory, you’d double how long they were grounded for BSing you. Yet we twist ourselves into pretzels trying to rationalize obvious lies when they come from elite runners that we otherwise like and previously respected. It’s a fascinating example of denial.

In the immortal words of Judge Judy, “Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.”

wejo wrote:

It's been acknowledged that the nandrolone Shelby took wasn't injected. Others have said it would be foolish to take it orally as the affects would be minimal.

So for those of you who think Shelby was doping how do you think it got in her system? What was she doing?

And also why would 30 Kenyans test positive for Nandrolone

https://twitter.com/jamie_langley1/status/1405443374237224960?s=21

if it's not helpful to distance runners?

I'm assuming some people are in the camp it was in her system, its' a banned substance they don't care why, but I'm posing the questions to people who think she was doping.

It's hard to opine based only on the information we have from Shelby's side. She's obv not gonna be divulging information that makes her look bad. We've already seen her and her team framing information so as to mislead others and skew perception in her favour (the whole carne asada vs pork issue). I'll wait until CAS releases their reasoning to answer this question.

Another spectacular attempt at skirting the issue by the Brojos.