Dibaba says F*CK YOU Qu Yunxia, runs 3:50 WR

Reel K5 wrote:

I'll take that bet wrote:

I'll bet you any amount that Cram wasn't doping. And his point which kanny repeated is something that lots of experienced runners will understand.

I'll take that bet -- and spot you Coe.

Ovett was the last clean mile record holder.

Nah, Cram. Then a few years later the EPO era began, backed by politics designed to elevate certain third world peoples while wrecking the confidence of others. Not only in sport. The fake refugee crisis is another part of this plan. Laugh now. You won't laugh later.

Ever read Ryun's book? There is no way he ever knowingly doped. But he did have a very ambitious high school coach who on the back of Ryun landed a good college job....

I'm not sure if you can listen to 'experienced' runners anymore, (a user point made on previous page), when you get to the limit, which a WR indicates it is, you should feel pain/discomfort. You will have euphoria of knowing you are close which will mask some of it, but I like Ovetts comments on his WR's, he said he always knew he was close so he just had to grit his teeth and go through 400m and push pain to the back. Read David Millar's book on drug taking and its effects, they may sound familiar to your 'experienced' runners.

You have a narrow viewpoint. Lots of runners have made the claim that some of their best races didn't hurt as much as the slower ones.

When you are running efficiently, you don't have to fight, you just float along. Those bad races hurt like hell, that's when you really have to dig deep, just to finish.

Well Durrrr.

If your argument is that if you are at your peak a fast race hurts less than when you are having a bad one then well done for stating the blindingly obvious. My argument is what happens when you start touching your upper limits, (suits you sir), if it was so easy we'd just run faster, and when people start saying how easy they felt on the last 700m on a 1500m race, if they found it that easy then run faster, cram was capable of a 49 sec 400m. What slows us down is lactic, VO2 max etc, which all translates as pain as the body touches its upper limits, everyone feels it, just some need to go faster to feel it, but everyone feels it, or the 1500m would just be a sprint.

Also Cram is the only athlete I know to run 1.42 800m and yet never be blessed with 400m speed, 49 is the quickest he ever ran one and no one used to say he was that quick (relatively), hmm if only there was a thing out there to let you keep running near top speed without running out of oxygen......

Well thanks for your expert analysis of the science. You sure nailed that one.

Lactic acid eh? Welcome back to the 1950s

tremendous riposte,

Maybe if you look up the ATP-ADP cycle you may see lactic acid mentioned, still very relevant as don't believe the body has altered too much since the 1950's, unless there is a new energy system in the body which you and your team of scientists are currently uncovering? Noakes work in S. Africa doesn't say anything on pain, just on how to keep up the performance in anaerobic events.

I probably won't write again, feel that you are not bringing anything to this discussion that will advance it, your next post could well be nah nah nah nah.

Maybe if you look up some research done in the last 15 years....

It's lactate, not lactic acid. Lactate production consumes protons, it doesn't produce them.

Frantic google search ahoy for you.

You probably won't write again? Oh dear, science's loss.

Anyway, the point is, Steve Cram knows more about running than you. And what he can relate is that when you are running efficiently, you don't get the same amount of shut down towards the end of the race.

Now if you want to get all sciency about it, I could suggest that this is because you are better able to recruit a variety of musle fibers, whereby lactate producition doesn't slow down as much as in a bad race so there would be less accumulation of H+. Added to this is the point that when you are running more efficiently, you produce more power with less total energy use.

You will have to think about that for a while, because it's gonna hurt your brain.

Thank you

for writing a much more considered piece, I will ignore the comments in it as I started it, although mine were in jest, hard to put tone across in text.

Yes I had mistakenly always called Lactic Acid and lactate as interchangeable terms, and although they can lead to each other by using an acid or base solution, the human body is at a constant pH and I will always distinguish from now on, many thanks. I would argue that the last paragraph is incorrect as the more efficient muscles/lungs/energy production etc. will allow you run faster but the accumulation of protons would still occur and so stop you from feeling that good, and lactate would still be produced, admittedly less than the average top runner, so feelings of fatigue would come in. At normal speed I agree that these top athletes would not produce anywhere as much as the normal club runner, but running a WR must be the top of their limits or they are beyond anyone ever by a long way who ran their distance, possible but very unlikely.

Steve Cram undoubtedly knows more about running than me, but he isn't going to admit what substances he took. I never doubted Steve, but in recent times had a cause to go look at a few things that I never questioned before, and now all things added up it is concerning. I HOPE he was clean.