Rita Jeptoo tests positive

J.R. wrote:

The more credit given to the drugs, the more prevalent that they will become.

My proposal is to get rid of the drug agencies, and get big pharma out of athletics. Take the money away from them.

Let people do what they want, no more money for big pharma, and drug use will decline.

Shut up, you've already given your opinion, and no one cares.

Repeating your opinion will not change the fact - that no one respects your opinion on here.

Up until a few years ago, Kenyans and Ethiopians were comparable in terms of athletic achievements. Only a few years go the Kenyans dropped them. This aligns perfectly with the widespread introduction of EPO and CERA in the greater Nairobi/Iten metropolitan area.

Renato:

With all respect. You are arguing that Euro coaches didn't introduce the Kenyan runners to EPO. So who did? Kenyan doctors?

It is my understanding that it takes tremendous knowledge of Training physiology as well as medical background and deep understanding of how tests work to design a "program" for athletes.

Do you suggest Jeptoo went to a Kenyan doctor and he gave her EPO?

Nutella1 wrote:

Renato:

With all respect. You are arguing that Euro coaches didn't introduce the Kenyan runners to EPO. So who did? Kenyan doctors?

It is my understanding that it takes tremendous knowledge of Training physiology as well as medical background and deep understanding of how tests work to design a "program" for athletes.

Do you suggest Jeptoo went to a Kenyan doctor and he gave her EPO?

Read his posts more carefully. It does not take any medical background to sell a Kenyan EPO and convince them it will help. The "program" can be complete bullshit, it's still doping.

You are also suggesting Kenyan doctors couldn't design a proper doping program if they wanted to.

I think it just laughable to claim with such confidence the shadowy figures behind this doping scandal are Kenyan, not European. Classic case of taking credit for the good and disowning the bad. Self preservation 101 from Beradelli and Rosa, if you ask me.

Maybe. But[, it's entirely possible Rita got injected by a local doctor w/o the knowledge of Claudio or Federico. I've no interest in defending Rosa and assoc, but she is a follower who associates with shady dudes who use her as a payday. I think that's the more likely avenue. Happy to be wrong though.

quote]El Keniano wrote:

I think it just laughable to claim with such confidence the shadowy figures behind this doping scandal are Kenyan, not European. Classic case of taking credit for the good and disowning the bad. Self preservation 101 from Beradelli and Rosa, if you ask me.[/quote]

J.R. wrote:

The more credit given to the drugs, the more prevalent that they will become.

My proposal is to get rid of the drug agencies, and get big pharma out of athletics. Take the money away from them.

Let people do what they want, no more money for big pharma, and drug use will decline.

stater of hard truths wrote:

Shut up, you've already given your opinion, and no one cares.

Repeating your opinion will not change the fact - that no one respects your opinion on here.

People care who want the truth and are honest.

The more drug agencies are in control of athletics, the more drugs are promoted, the more drugs are available, the more people on drugs. This is exactly what has happened from the start, has increased in exactly this way to today, and will continue in the future as long as people in control of the drugs and drug testing are in control of the sport.

There it is, pure and simple.

If you value the athletes, then get the drugs, drug testers, and drug promoters out of athletics. But if you want the drugs, then keep putting big pharma in control of athletics, IMHO a very stupid thing to be doing.

Look at the results to date, and you can see the outcomes in the future.

+1

Seriously, people, how many athletes do you need to see busted for drug use before you realize that the elite level of competition is just plain filthy? When we're constantly warned that the drug-testers are always a step or two behind the methods of the athletes, and that only the stupid athletes ever get caught, and yet, and yet....just about every big name in sports seems to get caught eventually.

Elite sports is filthy! It should be obvious by now. Being surprised by another bust is similar to being surprised when a TV preacher gets busted and found out not to be so holy after all.

I mean, seriously, the lengths that the various drug-testing organizations already go to - surprise tests, blood passports, frozen samples, watching athletes pee to make sure they don't use a fake penis or someone else's urine - should serve as a really obvious red flag: athletes will get away with whatever they can. They will go to extraordinary levels to cheat. If you ask me, it's not even "sport" any more,l once you concede that athletes are so prone to cheating that one must go to extraordinary lengths to try to stop them.

I don't think Rita Jeptoo has done anything unusual. I assume somewhere between 50 and 100 percent of the big-name marathoners are cheating. I would guess the number is closer to 100. She just happened to get caught. How can you have any faith in a system in which she very easily, for example, could have had a career-finishing injury after her 4th major win, and never been in a position to need to take the test that busted her, and would then presumably have never been deemed particularly suspicious by the average fan?

If you look at World Records for all track longer distances (up to 10000m) over the years, there is a major inflection point in the early/mid/90s. This coincides with the availability of EPO. The marathon records lagged for 10-15 years, largely for economic/systemic reasons. Now we are seeing the marathon times on the men's side catch up to the track times of the late '90s/early 2000s.

Here is the bottom line: EPO is the most revolutionary factor in distance running since the invention of the stopwatch. It WORKS, and it's effects are worth a FORTUNE to people who live in 3rd world countries.

Until there are active and effective testing labs in Eldoret AND Addis, we will have not even the slightest knowledge of just how deep the rabbit hole goes.

This bust will dwarf the Ben Johnson '88 in the long term, and if we are lucky we will see an end to this madness of multiple sub-2:04s in every major marathon.

El Keniano, I think EPO was introducted in Kenya by an Austrian pseudo-manager in 2007. He was in Winter Olympic Games in Torino 2006. In Italy there is a law against doping, and who sells or distributes illegal drugs is charged for criminal act and must face a criminal trial, with the final result he is jailed, if guilty.

During OG 2006, the Italian NAS (the nucleus of Carabinieri aginst drugs) went the Olympic Village, controlling the buildings of several Teams. The team of Austria (ski cross) escaped from the village, together with this pseudo-manager, travelling by car for going back Austria, but in the border between Italy and Austria (Brennero) they had a car accident, Italian Police arrived and discovered a lot of illegal substances in the car (EPO, GH and steroids, in Italy not allowed).

Banned by the Winter Sports Federation, this pseudo-manager went Kenya, in Kapsabet, continuing his dirty job. He was thrown out of Kenya after one year, but was the beginning of doping problems in Kenya.

Now, I don't know if there is something European behind, are Kenyan people to manage the situation of doping, abusing of the athletes with little education.

Two years ago, during a race in Baringo, one unknown person went to Patrick Sang, not knowing him, offering him to buy some substance in order to improve the performances of his athletes. He asked Patrick "are you an athletic manager ?", and you understand that somebody not knowing Patrick has nothing to do with the world of athletics.

The fact is that runners produce money and are a source of income for the Country. Where there is money, there are cheaters trying to take advantages, and these cheaters are Kenyan, not European.

The most part of athletes positive train in the area of Kapsabet. There is some problem in Kapsabet, and some kenyan doctor or pharmacist involved.

I can't say European are not involved, but kenyan are the "terminal" of the crime, and the ones having the last contact with the athletes.

yyy wrote:

My goodness, how boring.

A marathon is an innately boring thing to watch. And an economic drag on the rest of athletics, so if it fades away it's for the best. Let it go the way of the 10,000.

Edward Teach wrote:

You paint a picture where Rita's last marathon victories , before Chicago were clean. By that logic, Rita would not have doped. The fact is that she did, and likely was dirty for all these competitions. She knew how to hide it, but didn't go off quite soon enough before Chicago. I bet the difference was only a day or two. But the time she was caught indicates she has been cheating for a long time. You need to wake up, if testing improves, more and more drug cheats from Ethiopia and Kenya will be caught. The reality is very few athletes can run a marathon in under 2:06 without cheating in some way.

I have to agree with this. Everybody who is interested in cycling and knows all the scandals had and still has to read exactly the same stale sentences again.

The athlet:

I am shocked; I never took anything; I will prove my innocence; I am a victim; I always trained very hard ...

Coaches/management/the stuff behind:

Impossible; we trusted in; we believe in hard training and clean performances; we are pioneers of a new, clean generation of athlets; we check our athlets regularly; in a single moment of weakness he/she listened to bad people; all results before this test are clean; this shows that the control system works perfectly; let´s invest money in more and better controls ...

The public:

We always knew it, all others also dope ...; or: Very bad, but our sport is clean in the main and my favorite is clean in particular ...

My goodness, how boring. Major marathons being in pedestrian times. Clean 2:07 guys being top dogs again????

I looked at all these times -- there is no major inflection point.For distance running, EPO is largely unproven at the elite level.

Renato Canova wrote:

El Keniano, I think EPO was introducted in Kenya by an Austrian pseudo-manager in 2007.

i'd say it was there many many years before 2007

rekrunner wrote:

For distance running, EPO is largely unproven at the elite level.

See Cathal Lombard.

coach x wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

El Keniano, I think EPO was introducted in Kenya by an Austrian pseudo-manager in 2007.

i'd say it was there many many years before 2007

Exactly - and it now we have someone who vehemently denied that anything existed now saying that it has been there since 2006/7. Which is it.

No, it was commercial from the early 90s and it obviously

takes 15 years to make it available in Kenya - by a

pseudo-manager (this is a manager who is not licensed to be

one).