Kakaksjdjdhahdjajd wrote:
Hasay shesay wrote:I think Jordan Hasay might have been a better pacer. She probably would have gone 61 then 63 and then 62 - for 1200. Dibaba would have run 3:48.7
Lol you think Hasay could run a 3:06 1200??? Good lord people are delusional on here.
About white NOPers? Yes.
No, this group of women is not poor, nor are most who receive the services of a professional pacer, for that matter.
Well, I'm sure that Kiprop was jealous that he didn't get pacers splitting 53/57 for him.Dibaba is a young woman who just broke a freaky WR, of course she is happy with everything. Doesn't mean she couldn't have run significantly faster. On the other hand, Kiprop got flawless pacing and missed the WR by tenths, and looked less than ecstatic afterwards despite an incredible effort by all involved.
That's all very well but... wrote:
Soprano wrote:For what it's worth, Dibaba was happy with Price's pacing job.
http://www.iaaf.org/news/feature/genzebe-dibaba-1500m-world-record“The pacer did a really good job and I was confident in her. … She did such a good job that I knew I had to keep pushing. I didn’t want to waste the opportunity.”
Who is she to question Victor E.Lapp?
Ptok wrote:
[quote]Oh? wrote:
Price didn't run an uneven pace.....
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2).
Price slowed too much the last 300 but the first 500 was pretty much amazing. I thought she showed a lot of awareness and was looking over her shoulder in the first 200 to make sure Dibaba was there.
I think what people are saying is she didn't butcher the first lap like so many people and she ran pretty even. Often times, you see people go out in 28, then go 32, 32, 32. Her 100 meters splits were perfect. Dibaba was latched on to her from the get-go and had someone to chase. If there is any gap at all, it really hurts people.
Plus if you ram the first 200 to fast, it can be over as well.
I too would give her an 8 .5 simply as the WR was set. John Kellogg always told me in a 1500 WR, you want the first 300 to be the fastest which is pretty much what happened here.
My favorite of Genzebe Dibaba's comments:
"I have been dreaming of an outdoor world record for ever. Now I want them all: the 1500m, the 5000m, even the 800m."
Get that doped up half man, half woman Jarmila Kratcho-whateverthef*ck's 800m WR record out of here. It's nice to see an athlete actually interested in not just winning but running fast - she's basically the anti Mo Farah which is why she'll be more popular and well liked.
I'll up Rojo's score to a 9.0 because, as he said, the WR was indeed acheived, but also because 1500/Mile records are so often set using the "Natural Pace" pattern (see Bert/Cordner Nelson for more on this). "Natural Pace" plays out in a Mile as Laps 1 and 4 being similar splits, and Laps 2 and 3 being slower, and functioning as the "cruise section" of the race. So, Price settled in to cruise mode on Lap 2, and clearly Dibaba was "resting" from 400 to 800m, as she then ran a stellar 400m from 800 to 1200m (60.10), and finished with a 45.46 300m.
The bottom line is that 60-64-60-59 are in no way ideal splits. There is more there for the taking, that is the good news.
I seriously doubt Dibaba has even seen her splits; all she knows is that she got to 800 at 2:04 and had to get after it, and she did. There is a 3:48 there, rest assured.
And 1:53 should not be a huge problem. She ran a 1:59 final 800 off of 5000 training.
the split differance between the 1st and 2nd lap/400m should be 3 to 4 secs. as it was for Price
Victor E. Lapp wrote:
Price certainly cost Dibaba a sub-3:50, and almost the record, when she ran too slow (2:04) but more importantly, too uneven (60-low,64-low) for 800m, which forced Dibaba to run sub-2:00 for the final 800 (60,59).
When will a decent pacer arise that can deliver a something like Kiprop got in his race?
Dibaba gave the idiot a big hug afterwards as well
In the absence of getting a runner with any brains better to get a pacer who is slower over 800m so they don't haven't got the speed to go too fast on the first lap
Victor E. Lapp wrote:
Price certainly cost Dibaba a sub-3:50, and almost the record, when she ran too slow (2:04) but more importantly, too uneven (60-low,64-low) for 800m, which forced Dibaba to run sub-2:00 for the final 800 (60,59).
When will a decent pacer arise that can deliver a something like Kiprop got in his race?
Well the requested pace was 2:03
So she was a second off but whether it was 2:02 or 2:04, being a second within the request over 800m isn't bad, I've done pacing jobs for other teammates of mine in HS and I'd consider myself a pretty good pacer but also note that it looks much harder than it actually is to be SPOT ON, you have to leave room for error
How do you know Dibaba didn't request 60-63? 61-62 might have been worse in her opinion, some runners run better off of a fast start and a 61 might've led the string of runners behind her a little train, so just in case she faded a little (3:54-3:55) she wouldn't have anyone come back to her, that 1 sec makes a difference, plus with Hassan on her heels her best shot was to outrun her
60-64-60-46low or 44-63-63-59high
Both of these are the correct splits, but the second set of number looks a lot better haha
My verdict, Price got the job done
Not an EXCEPTIONAL job, but got the job done
You guys realize this is a WORLD CHAMPION pacing another woman right? This was such a ridiculous record attempt (who has run under 3:55 besides her other than the Chinese??) That they needed to take Chanel price...a world champion and let her pace.
Most woman's record attempts the rabbits are commically bad. World record in the 10 is what? 29:30?? So Molly Huddle in peak form wouldn't be able to rabbit it at an even pace for a WR attempt. And huddle hasn't lost all of this year.
This wasn't a 10/10 but it was a 7-8/10. Price was at 60 point. Dibaba a touch behind. 60 mid to high for dibaba and then 63 mid to high is a difference of 3 seconds. Kiprop went 53-57 didn't he?
Stop complaining about every single thing.
Giving Price high marks for her pacing duties BECAUSE the world record was set is idiotic. That would be like saying, because it was 86 degrees with 77% humidity at the exact time the world record was set, then that represents optimal weather for record setting attempts in the 1500. Dibaba set the world record DESPITE less than ideal pacing.
rojo wrote:
Ptok wrote:[quote]Oh? wrote:
Price didn't run an uneven pace.....
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2).
Price slowed too much the last 300 but the first 500 was pretty much amazing. I thought she showed a lot of awareness and was looking over her shoulder in the first 200 to make sure Dibaba was there.
I think what people are saying is she didn't butcher the first lap like so many people and she ran pretty even. Often times, you see people go out in 28, then go 32, 32, 32. Her 100 meters splits were perfect. Dibaba was latched on to her from the get-go and had someone to chase. If there is any gap at all, it really hurts people.
Plus if you ram the first 200 to fast, it can be over as well.
I too would give her an 8 .5 simply as the WR was set. John Kellogg always told me in a 1500 WR, you want the first 300 to be the fastest which is pretty much what happened here.
What a load of nonsense
60 / 64 is good pacing on which planet! She should have reached the 800m point at 2:02
'Price didn't run an uneven pace.....
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2).'
Are you flipping well joking! How is 60 / 64 anything but even! Note the lack of a question mark it's a rhetorical question.
I'm really surprised you wrote any of this. A world record was run despite uneven pacing. A good 500m! - she is paid to 800m not 500m.
"RW: Did you speak to Dibaba herself before the race, or did you get your instructions from the meet director?
CP: The meet director was the first person I saw when I arrived in Monaco, and he was just saying to run 2:03 or 2:04 [for the first 800 meters], and to be very, very smooth because she really likes to kick it in after that."
So you are saying she should've run 2:02, faster than the requested pace?
ukathleticscoach wrote:
rojo wrote:Price slowed too much the last 300 but the first 500 was pretty much amazing. I thought she showed a lot of awareness and was looking over her shoulder in the first 200 to make sure Dibaba was there.
I think what people are saying is she didn't butcher the first lap like so many people and she ran pretty even. Often times, you see people go out in 28, then go 32, 32, 32. Her 100 meters splits were perfect. Dibaba was latched on to her from the get-go and had someone to chase. If there is any gap at all, it really hurts people.
Plus if you ram the first 200 to fast, it can be over as well.
I too would give her an 8 .5 simply as the WR was set. John Kellogg always told me in a 1500 WR, you want the first 300 to be the fastest which is pretty much what happened here.
What a load of nonsense
60 / 64 is good pacing on which planet! She should have reached the 800m point at 2:02
'Price didn't run an uneven pace.....
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2).'
Are you flipping well joking! How is 60 / 64 anything but even! Note the lack of a question mark it's a rhetorical question.
I'm really surprised you wrote any of this. A world record was run despite uneven pacing. A good 500m! - she is paid to 800m not 500m.
You're an idiot. Dibaba herself was more likely 60 high- 63 low for a 2:04 flat. That's not perfect pacing but it's very good. If you had ever run at a high level you'd know that 1500m runners like to get out fast the first 200 ahead of their average pace which leads to a faster overall first 400m.
Furthermore, maybe Dibaba runs best with a fast first and last 400m. Not all runners are the same or benefit from the exact same running style you know. Virtually every world record that has ever been set has had a fast first or last 400m. Price did a good job, I too would give it 8/10.
EastonPA wrote:
ukathleticscoach wrote:What a load of nonsense
60 / 64 is good pacing on which planet! She should have reached the 800m point at 2:02
'Price didn't run an uneven pace.....
100m splits:
14.4-15.0-15.2-15.7 (60.3)
15.7-16.1-16.1-16.3 (64.2).'
Are you flipping well joking! How is 60 / 64 anything but even! Note the lack of a question mark it's a rhetorical question.
I'm really surprised you wrote any of this. A world record was run despite uneven pacing. A good 500m! - she is paid to 800m not 500m.
You're an idiot. Dibaba herself was more likely 60 high- 63 low for a 2:04 flat. That's not perfect pacing but it's very good. If you had ever run at a high level you'd know that 1500m runners like to get out fast the first 200 ahead of their average pace which leads to a faster overall first 400m.
Furthermore, maybe Dibaba runs best with a fast first and last 400m. Not all runners are the same or benefit from the exact same running style you know. Virtually every world record that has ever been set has had a fast first or last 400m. Price did a good job, I too would give it 8/10.
Did running at a high level affect (as if) have any reflection on your ability to do simple mathematics!
We are talking about the pacer who ran 60 / 64. No way was she instructed to go out in those times. Her 60xx was only slightly too fast but 64 for the second lap is too slow and makes no physiological sense. The first and lap laps may have been historically slightly faster but not to that extent. ie 60xx, 62 might have been ok 60 / 64 is not
The pace was too uneven its a 1,500m not an 800m.
The mens world mile record set by El Guerrouj was run in a 1.5 second differential between the first and second 400m not 4 seconds.
Here are the splits for the mile record:
55.07
56.51
56.33
55.22
The splits for 1500m record were:
55
55.73
55.61
The last 300m were run at 39.66 but he did have another runner chasing him down and it still does not tie in with your incorrect assumption that the first and last laps are run considerably quicker
Good interview on this topic:
They requested 60/61,60/61, which is what I would have thought. 64 was a clunker, but obviously not fatal to someone in 3:48 shape. This is why I chose "poor" and not "crappy" or "horrible" to describe CP's work.
If it had been a 64 with a sub-16 last 100 or especially a 32-low last 200, that would have been much better. Willis talks about this with Kyle Merber:
"A couple years later I had a conversation with Nick about why that race was so fast, and I think he summed it up perfectly: Most rabbits go out fast, slow down and step off after their slowest 100. Now the athletes behind have lost their momentum, and have to shift gears again to head into the kick. In that race, we were wound up and released."
https://kylemerber.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/furman-recap/
It's hard enough to find women who can evenly pace even a 2:06/7 in DL meets; Price is likely one of the few who could reliably give a 2:04, even poorly paced, under pressure like that.
Soprano wrote:
For what it's worth, Dibaba was happy with Price's pacing job.
http://www.iaaf.org/news/feature/genzebe-dibaba-1500m-world-record“The pacer did a really good job and I was confident in her. … She did such a good job that I knew I had to keep pushing. I didn’t want to waste the opportunity.”
Dibaba is a class act. Still, the pacing could have been more even. 4 seconds is ridiculous. But Dibaba could have gone by if it were too slow, so I guess she felt it was better than not having a rabbit.
Russian Dope Fiend wrote:
http://www.iaaf.org/news/feature/genzebe-dibaba-1500m-world-recordMy favorite of Genzebe Dibaba's comments:
"I have been dreaming of an outdoor world record for ever. Now I want them all: the 1500m, the 5000m, even the 800m."
Get that doped up half man, half woman Jarmila Kratcho-whateverthef*ck's 800m WR record out of here. It's nice to see an athlete actually interested in not just winning but running fast - she's basically the anti Mo Farah which is why she'll be more popular and well liked.
This post just shows sums up what is wrong with track and field fans - as delusional and narrow minded as cycling fans were prior to Armstrong's admission of guilt.
So let me get this straight, Dibaba just broke the world record of a doper* (and I put an asterisk next that because we still do not know for sure - the Chinese never failed an drug tests) and you are willing her to erase another speculative dopers record from the books - but she is 100% clean right? No concerns here at all? No concerns with an athlete that took 7 seconds off her PR in a single season - not from a sub elite level, but from an already elite world level of 3min57 down to the fastest time ever run?
It's perfect positive discrimination. A Chinese woman could never run 3min50 clean but of course an Ethiopian can.
For the record I believe the Chinese were doped and Jarmila were doped - but that is not the issue. The seeming willingness of people to overlook the facts of the situation in order to believe something they want to be true is astounding.
And for the record not only do I (again) believe in the aforementioned dopers, I sure as hell believe that Dibaba has just as much junk flowing her her veins as they did.
GlobalView wrote:
I'll up Rojo's score to a 9.0 because, as he said, the WR was indeed acheived, but also because 1500/Mile records are so often set using the "Natural Pace" pattern (see Bert/Cordner Nelson for more on this). "Natural Pace" plays out in a Mile as Laps 1 and 4 being similar splits, and Laps 2 and 3 being slower, and functioning as the "cruise section" of the race. So, Price settled in to cruise mode on Lap 2, and clearly Dibaba was "resting" from 400 to 800m, as she then ran a stellar 400m from 800 to 1200m (60.10), and finished with a 45.46 300m.
Thanks for agreeing.
RW has an extensive interview with Price out now.
http://www.runnersworld.com/elite-runners/chanelle-price-calls-pacing-world-record-a-dream-come-trueThe key thing everyone wanted was for Price to be smooth and she was.
It's clear from the interview she took the job seriously and understands what a rabbit is there to do - unlike so many other rabbits who aim for a time but don't pay attention to helping the runner.
RW wrote:
The meet director was the first person I saw when I arrived in Monaco, and he was just saying to run 2:03 or 2:04 [for the first 800 meters], and to be very, very smooth because she really likes to kick it in after that....They wanted a 61.5 and then 62, which is tough for me because I’m more, get out sub-60 and then we just kinda finish with whatever we have left. We don’t really care how even it is in the open 800. We call it “ride until we die.” Her coach reassured me, “Don’t really worry about the splits, just try to be as smooth as possible,” and so that’s what I focused on.
