How to beat an 800 guy in a 5k? Speed vs. Endurance

get more endurance, run away from him

Is this a troll post?

Try this. Go easy in the first mile, then gradually start picking up the pace. Keep in mind that you have to beat him before the last 400m. By going out easy and controlled in the first mile, you will likely be amazed by how much you have left in the tank in the last mile. Running really hard from ~1.5 - 2.5 will really boost your confidence as you start to reel in and blow by people when they are going the slowest.

Why would this be a troll post? It is a legitimate question

b/c is you really don't know the answer then you know nothing about running. or logic in general.

AJJ wrote:

Why would this be a troll post? It is a legitimate question

AJJ wrote:

Why would this be a troll post? It is a legitimate question

No it is not. If he is an 800 guy then running faster is the only way to beat him. If you know he is an 800 guy, then shouldn't you know that the only other option (trying to out kick him off a slow pace) won't work? That's why it seems like a troll post.

Why do you even think he's an 800 guy? Perhaps he is a 5k guy that is just a better overall runner than you. Even Bekele can run a 1:45 for 800m and he's a 5k guy. Perhaps the guy you're racing against is really a 16:00 guy.

No I know his times from Milesplit and I have seen him race the 800 in person. We are the best two in our league and it is gonna be a battle. I personally race the 3200. His times drop off more than mine do, which makes it a close battle in the 5k.

I just want a strategy to beat him.

He's just a bit better than you.

Just try to get a bit fitter and work on your speed as well. Hope he doesn't improve if you do.

You're running XC, meaning that you are competing in races with hundreds of competitors, and you want to build your strategy around beating one specific dude?

for serious? wrote:

You're running XC, meaning that you are competing in races with hundreds of competitors, and you want to build your strategy around beating one specific dude?

Reasonable question. This guy and me are the two best in our league and we are going to battle it out for the title. That is why I need a strategy to beat him.

Go out hard. Force him to hurt the whole way by makin yourself hurt the whole way. That is the only way. Your hope is that he decides the hurt sucks and backs off. If that doesn't do it then you can't beat him.

I'm primarily an 800 guy who also races everything up through 8k.

There are 2 ways to try and beat a speed guy. #1 is to just push the pace from the start. Force the mid-d guy to hang with you over the full 5k distance.

#2 is that you start your kick from further out than your mid-d opponent is comfortable kicking. My teammate did this to me in college in a couple of 2mile time trials. He knew I had much faster speed, so he kicked from 600m out, and got a pretty good jump on me both times. The first time he got enough distance on me that I couldn't catch him in the last 400.

The 2nd time, he got a similar jump on me, but I closed it down quicker. Then it got ugly for him in the last 300 :)

go to youtube and look up John Ngugi in Seoul 1988. That is how to break mid-d types. They're not bothered by pace in the first kilometer, but if you surge at 1k and keep going, they will break.

800 guy himself has probably been beaten that way many times, as have I.

Where is the league meet held? How well do you know the course? How well can you get to know the course beforehand?

Get to know the course very well and use it to your advantage. For example, suggestions have been made about throwing in surges. Where on this particular course would be the best place to do so?

Runners typically slow down around turns and if they are tired, it's difficult for them to get back up to pace. Same for hills, obviously.

How long til the big meet? It's never too late to work on your speed. Maybe you are faster than you think.

AJJ wrote:

So me and this guy are very close to each other in a 5k. The last race he beat me by 9 seconds( he ran 16:54 and I ran 17:03). We were together for a basically the whole race until he outkicked me in the last 400. His pr in the 800 is 1:58 while mine is 2:10. I need a strategy to beat him in a 5k. I am more of an endurance guy while he is a speed guy.

Should I just give it everything from the gun, should I surge in the race, what strategy will give me the best chance at beating him?

Run the fastest time possible from the start, to the finish.

Bad Wigins wrote:

go to youtube and look up John Ngugi in Seoul 1988. That is how to break mid-d types. They're not bothered by pace in the first kilometer, but if you surge at 1k and keep going, they will break.

800 guy himself has probably been beaten that way many times, as have I.

Great race and a great idea. Imma try this. Thanks!

do the opposite strategy. run it on pure love.

Same situation my Hs Jr. year but the tables were turned. I was the 800/miler and he was the 3/5k guy. Anyway, at districts he pushed the second mile which I was reluctant to react too but did. The third mile I started loosing contact with him and by the time 400m to go came around although I was only 4 seconds back and could have caught him with a kick I simply had no will to do so and he beat me by... 4 seconds! So he caught me off guard that year by pushing hard in the middle and basically sapping my will to win by the end of the race. However don't expect this strategy to work long term. I learned my lesson and trained like an actual distance runner should after that race. By Sr. year I was running 45 seconds faster than he in the 5k.

Doesn't really matter what you do. Its not that you are more endurance oriented, its that hes a better runner than you. Drives me nuts how so many delusional people on this board think they are "strength oriented" when in reality they are just not good at running.