Most unbreakablerecord: Bekele 10 000m, Bolt's 100m or El Guerrouj 1500m

Would a situation like the Nike campus 5k where Kincaid broke 13 count for a WR?

That might be the equivalent of a technical improvement that would enable some distance records. Imagine turning some A-list Ethiopians and Kenyans loose in those conditions!

Prairie Dawg wrote:

Would a situation like the Nike campus 5k where Kincaid broke 13 count for a WR?

That might be the equivalent of a technical improvement that would enable some distance records. Imagine turning some A-list Ethiopians and Kenyans loose in those conditions!

Only serious and regulated regular competition would qualify. No artifice.

All records can be beaten in theory, but for the women some record will soon be 40 years old and with no sign of anybody approaching it. The 800 was a remote chance with the manly women but not it's completely gone.

Men records are fair and up to beat by other exceptionnal athletes on similar conditions.

All records will be rewritten in the next 20 years, I'm sure of that, and it won't be because of chemical doping. Gene editing / Genetic doping is going to be the wave of the future, and it'll make all these records look soft.

EssorLinki wrote:

If even a "male" female like Semenya could not get close, I doubt another woman would be able to beat the record. That's why I did not include women records in my thread. A lot of them are completely out of reach because doping had a much bigger effect on women.

Pamela Jelimo doesn't have an intersex condition and ran faster than Semenya.

A woman with the talent to run 1:53.1 clean emerging doesn't seem as unlikely as a behemoth capable of a 22.65m shot put.

Star wrote:

9.58

Unquestionably. Defeating that sprint record requires an ultra special frame and talent. That 9.58 will still be a fantastic time a century from now, if this sport still exists.

Contrast to the distance races. They always look great at a point in time. You watch the races and it seems as fast as a human is capable of covering lap after lap. Meanwhile look at the tape decades later and it looks insulting because everyone is just jogging along. The times touted in this thread will no different, especially the 10,000

Awsi Dooger wrote:

Star wrote:

9.58

Unquestionably. Defeating that sprint record requires an ultra special frame and talent. That 9.58 will still be a fantastic time a century from now, if this sport still exists.

Contrast to the distance races. They always look great at a point in time. You watch the races and it seems as fast as a human is capable of covering lap after lap. Meanwhile look at the tape decades later and it looks insulting because everyone is just jogging along. The times touted in this thread will no different, especially the 10,000

You are saying this, but the 10 000 and 5 000 records are already 15 years old. El Gerrouj 1500m record is already 20 years old.

While the 800, 400, 200 and 100 are more recent.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

No record is unbeatable, IMO.

It would take the best athlete, on the best unrestricted dope, on the best day, at their best, to produce an unassailable record.

In the distance races I think we've already seen all of this.

Modern pros have micro-dosing down to a very good science. But in the 90s and early 2000s, they had no thought of being caught. Completely unrestricted.

And even in that era of complete free-for-all, El Guerrouj, Komen, Geb, and eventually Bekele were very much ahead of their equally doped competition.

Paula's 2hr 15m 25s

Jambo Cabao wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

No record is unbeatable, IMO.

It would take the best athlete, on the best unrestricted dope, on the best day, at their best, to produce an unassailable record.

In the distance races I think we've already seen all of this.

Modern pros have micro-dosing down to a very good science. But in the 90s and early 2000s, they had no thought of being caught. Completely unrestricted.

And even in that era of complete free-for-all, El Guerrouj, Komen, Geb, and eventually Bekele were very much ahead of their equally doped competition.

Do you really think that those guys were all the best athlete, ever, at their distance? I know a definitive answer is ‘t possible, but for instance do you think a clean El G is beating a clean Kiprop, for instance, while they are both at their best?

Of course you are much better-equipped to answer this question than am I.

Individual physiology and physiognomy needs to be related to the specific dope used—for instance, a speed peptide will significantly balance the otherwise-weak nerve signal transmission in guys like Dolt and Lemaitre, and will help them overcome a key weakness.

Certain anabolics will help weaker guys hypertrophy and develop more power during acceleration, overcoming their weakness. Some guys just can’t get it up enough mentally, so stims help them.

For distance, I don’t know what to think, because it seems to be about efficiency and absolute aerobic capacity, for the various paces and levels of effort that each different distance entails. It seems like EPO is of universal benefit, like certain roids in sprinting.

Do you think each of those guys was the best-ever for their event, and that their dope was perfectly matched to their weakness?

I could see somebody better than Dolt coming along. Heck, Blake was already at 9.69 with zero wind, and he would have broken 19.19 if he hadn’t missed the gun. BJ would have reached that same level in the 100m had he been allowed to compete. As a matter of fact, Lemaitre would probably have equalled those times on the right stuff—this is a guy who was 10-flat and 19.80, cleanly. Think about that.

All male track records can be broken, especially the sprint ones. In very recent times the 60, 100, 200, 400, 800, and 110mH have all been re-set. All of them! They all bested doped records, and there is little reason to doubt that the current crop of doped records will not also fall.

Jambo Cabao wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

No record is unbeatable, IMO.

It would take the best athlete, on the best unrestricted dope, on the best day, at their best, to produce an unassailable record.

In the distance races I think we've already seen all of this.

Modern pros have micro-dosing down to a very good science. But in the 90s and early 2000s, they had no thought of being caught. Completely unrestricted.

And even in that era of complete free-for-all, El Guerrouj, Komen, Geb, and eventually Bekele were very much ahead of their equally doped competition.

It's pretty impressive if a 37 year old, microdosed Bekele , can be at 2 seconds away from the marathon world record if he was ultra doped at 24 when cleaning the field on the tracks. Is he better at 37 than 24? I doubt it.

Lemaitre is for sure clean because...he’s... what?

Say what you mean, old man.

He’s clean because he is squeaky clean. Physical appearance never changed. Sprint form never changed. Times lowered only a little bit from when he was discovered . Best 200m time when he was young. Never put on musculature. Never bevame more ripped—or ripped at all. Never really improved any significant weakness. Never had new form enabled. Never had huge jumpsnin performance. Never associated with a dirty camp or coach. Times were no different than times being run 50 years ago, even with new tracks and equipment. Etc.

Notice I didn’t use Mennea as an example, with a superior 200m time, because he used. Or guys like Borzo or Wells, who most certainly used. Or guys like Nemeth or Dobos, who were actually busted.

I might have said Calvin Smith, but IMO Lemaitre had greater weaknesses and may have benefitted more from juice than Smith. Take either of those guys in the 100m, give them the 0.50-second dope boost, and they are 9.5; in the 200, Lemaitre would be up there with the macro-users Ackbar, Flake, and Dolt.

A clean Dolt was no better than either Lemaitre or Smith.

Lemaitre’s improvements came between the ages of 15-19, and he has been consistently at roughly the same level for 10 years, slowing a bit now.

If he pulled a Demerritt, Pharmelita, or Muhammad, and dropped a half second from his 10-year average level to WR status at age 29 after a 10-year plateau, then it would be unquestionable.

Dolt went 9.5 because he was likely one of the first 10-flat guys to use, and his use was essentially unrestricted in his heyday. Gay, OTOH, was a 10.2-10.3 guy, Powell and Blake a bit faster maybe 10.1-10.2, and Gatlin maybe the fastest of all, 10.0-10.1, same as CL—and he made it to 9.74, and would have probably made 9.5/9.6-low if his use had been permitted as was Dolt’s.

A Dolt equal will be possible to find, but conditions have changed. But as they always have, they will change back, and someone will walk through the door.

I do believe there are some great clean sprinters—Lemaitre and, even though she was NCAA and I don’t like her, Felix come to mind.

Put Felix on some good stuff and she’s 10.5-10.6, and 21.3-21.4, IMO—at least when she was at her peak.

Bekele’s 10k record is the one performance that for me still makes me question if that was PED aided. The time is a big outlier, and it was done during loose testing period.

I want to believe Bekele did the 10k record and his Berlin race clean, but suspicions linger.

Flo-Jo's 200 meter

Paula poster wrote:

Paula's 2hr 15m 25s

Yup