Only 66% of Americans today feel World War 2 was a "Justified War" for the US

Smb wrote:

I think it is much harder to justify the second bomb three days later. Some more threats and giving them time to understand that we could hit city after city would have saved thousands, and some of our honor.

What do think the three day delay was about? If Japan didn't surrender immediately, it is because they perhaps thinking the 1st nuke was a fluke, or a one-off, and it took the 2nd one to convince them to surrender.

I'm not as conversant with that part of history, but here's what the US Holocaust Memorial Museum has to say.

It estimates 5.7 million non-Jewish Soviet civilians were killed in WWII. A horrifying number, to be sure, but a rather smaller percentage than the two-thirds of European Jews, or the 90% of Polish Jews, who were killed.

For the Soviet military, numbers seem uncertain -- at a glance it's around 10 million. Neither of these, of course, count the mass murder Stalin was himself committing, and there the numbers get really uncertain. Some say 1 million during WWII, some say more like 10 million (with many more before and after, of course). Based on reading Solzhenitsyn and others, I'm inclined to believe the high numbers and consider the low ones one step above Holocaust deniers. It's much harder to get definitive answers, though, when the nation committing these crimes has decades to get rid of the evidence.

Among Stalin's great crimes, none of this counts the Holodomor, the mass murder by starvation of Ukrainians, as it took place in 1932-33.

What, did you imagine I was the stereotype of a Jew you had built up in your head, to shrink like a vampire before the cross of "other victims of Hitler", to burn in the holy water of "other genocides"? Just the opposite. The horrific mass murders of all sorts of tyrannical governments have long been an interest of mine. I have no problem acknowledging that in their own mass murders, Stalin killed more people than Hitler and Mao killed more than him, or that those genocides have their own deniers.

huiosoisoidoisi wrote:

Smb wrote:

I think it is much harder to justify the second bomb three days later. Some more threats and giving them time to understand that we could hit city after city would have saved thousands, and some of our honor.

What do think the three day delay was about? If Japan didn't surrender immediately, it is because they perhaps thinking the 1st nuke was a fluke, or a one-off, and it took the 2nd one to convince them to surrender.

Yes....it took the 2nd one to convince them as well as the Soviet Union declaring war on Japan after Hiroshima. And the U.S. didn't have a 3rd bomb in reserve, so Truman was sweating bullets that Emperor Hirohito would surrender after Nagasaki. This was difficult for Hirohito as Japan's resistance was part of their Samurai heritage & code of ethics known as 'Bushido' for the wartime posture of no surrender.

Also, look back at the Battle of Okinawa which was fought a couple of months before the decision was made to drop the A-bombs. "The battle was one of the bloodiest in the Pacific, with approximately 160,000 casualties on both sides: at least 75,000 Allied and 84,166–117,000 Japanese, including drafted Okinawans wearing Japanese uniforms. 149,425 Okinawans were killed, committed suicide or went missing, a significant proportion of the estimated pre-war 300,000 local population."

With that type of resistance mounted by Japan on Okinawa (plus the Kamikaze pilots that were wrecking havic on the American fleet), there was no way they would surrender without a massive American invasion of the mainland probably costing hundreds of thousands of American lives.

cl wrote:

Spin a yarn wrote:

Wow, this thread sure got censored in the past day.

Rally ‘round the flag, boys!

Notice that the fink above doesn't mind that half the thread was deleted. It only objects to his own hasbara comments being deleted.

Free speech has always been a foreign concept for these fiddlers.

You misread me, probably on purpose, but maybe out of foolishness. I don't care that my responses to lunatic troll comments were deleted (and I'm pretty sure even Holocaust deniers and minimizers think "Hitler was the biggest Zionist of them all" is lunatic trolling). I don't see the reason to delete a reasonable response to a reasonable question, particularly when the question itself was rightly left up.

Your buddy a few posts down repeats another Holocaust canard: that the Red Cross claimed there were only 300,000 deaths in the Holocaust. As reproduced at

, the images cited were never from the Red Cross, and they refer only to German (Jewish and non-Jewish) victims. Given the correct context, that number is probably about right. 200,000 or so German Jews were killed in the Holocaust (there were only about 250,000 German Jews before the war to begin with). The majority of Jewish Holocaust victims were from Eastern Europe, largely Poland, for the very simple reason that the majority of European Jews were there.

Germany had a strong fear of going communist like Russia did. Germany also saw that Spain almost went communist in the 1930's. Germany's goal was to defeat the socialists who would do the same to their country. In America we must support Trump and the Republicans as you can see from the debates that the Democrats are now embracing socialism.

Just conscript those 34%, send them off to war, and the #s will take care of themselves

Were there any significant anti war protests in ww2 similar to when the Vietnam war was waged?

IMO, Americans should feel ashamed we didn't commit to the war sooner. Our government knew full well the intention of the Germans and their allies was world domination and extinction/slavery of racial groups. This is the only acceptable reason for war.

We ALL belong to the human race. The only honorable and acceptable reason for war is protection of humanity and it's diversity. All humanity is flawed and those flaws rise to the surface whenever ethnic groups become concentrated and homogeneous. Of course that is what you see going on in Israel. America needs to change our stance in that part of the world, no doubt. Can I see Jews fighting on behalf of freedom and humanity? Yes- it happened in WW2. The Western world has been the catalyst for bringing people together. Like minded people with your archaic views only set us back.

Name one Rabbi that said that. The only reference I could find to someone that said that was a tour guide in Isreal.

550,000 Jewish-American soldiers were involved in WW2. Can you find even one quote that supports your claim that Jews aren't grateful for the Allies defeating the Axis. And it was not a war for Jews.

I don't understand why posts like your's are allowed in this forum.

Wallenberg, Schindler are among the many "gentiles" honored at Yad Vashem. Yes the term Righteous Gentiles, or Righteous Among the Nations (goyim means nations and is not necessarily the pejorative term you anti semites give it) are the Non Jews honored for their role fighting against the Nazis.

Positive Contribution wrote:

Hindsight being 20/20. We should have done nothing more than keep the Nazis out of Britain and let Germany and the Soviet beat the poo out of each other.

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Hitler certainly did not want the Jews in Germany --- but his real beef was with communism and it's threat via the Soviet Union. Communism had world domination in mind, and succeeded in taking over Russia (and failed in Spain) and Hitler thought Germany was on their menu --- so that's the reason he attacked the Soviet Union. Had Hitler's only beef been with the Jews he would have killed them off rather easily, but instead tried to deport/imprison them all until they could be picked up on waivers.

This attitude makes it easier to succeed in life in today’s world. The competition out there is soft and weak. Easily dominated. Winning!

I’m not worried about national security. We throw enough money at the DOD to be basically invincible. Nobody will try us.

UA Runner wrote:

(((WWII))) wrote:

Most of history, especially war history, is the opposite of what we are taught.

And as someone born in the 70s, I don't see how I could ever say if it was justified or not. It's like someone born in 2039 telling me that the war in Afghanistan wasn't justified in 2003. How can people really know if they're not around while the actions are taking place?

Right now people may think Afghanistan wasn't justified.. but Sept 12th 2001, there wasn't anyone who thought it was a bad idea.

True, and the same was true on Dec 8, 1941.

346bway wrote:

Positive Contribution wrote:

Hindsight being 20/20. We should have done nothing more than keep the Nazis out of Britain and let Germany and the Soviet beat the poo out of each other.

________________________________________________________

Hitler certainly did not want the Jews in Germany --- but his real beef was with communism and it's threat via the Soviet Union. Communism had world domination in mind, and succeeded in taking over Russia (and failed in Spain) and Hitler thought Germany was on their menu --- so that's the reason he attacked the Soviet Union. Had Hitler's only beef been with the Jews he would have killed them off rather easily, but instead tried to deport/imprison them all until they could be picked up on waivers.

In retrospect, Hitler was a pretty good guy.

making lemonade wrote:

This attitude makes it easier to succeed in life in today’s world. The competition out there is soft and weak. Easily dominated. Winning!

I’m not worried about national security. We throw enough money at the DOD to be basically invincible. Nobody will try us.

Speeding too much on military and military adjacent organizations like C.I.A., N.S.A. & V.A. ruins all empires. Putin tries U.S. all the time. Ukraine, a U.S. ally was invaded by Russia and U.S. did nothing about it. What if Putin & Russia take 250km of Poland? What if Putin & Russia take 2500km of Alaska, should U.S. start WW3 over Alaska? Do you want to fight or have your sons fight in middle of winter to save Alaska?

student of economics wrote:

making lemonade wrote:

This attitude makes it easier to succeed in life in today’s world. The competition out there is soft and weak. Easily dominated. Winning!

I’m not worried about national security. We throw enough money at the DOD to be basically invincible. Nobody will try us.

Spending too much on military and military adjacent organizations like C.I.A., N.S.A. & V.A. ruins all empires. Putin tries U.S. all the time. Ukraine, a U.S. ally was invaded by Russia and U.S. did nothing about it. What if Putin & Russia take 250km of Poland? What if Putin & Russia take 2500km of Alaska, should U.S. start WW3 over Alaska? Do you want to fight or have your sons fight in middle of winter to save Alaska?

UA Runner wrote:

(((WWII))) wrote:

Most of history, especially war history, is the opposite of what we are taught.

And as someone born in the 70s, I don't see how I could ever say if it was justified or not. It's like someone born in 2039 telling me that the war in Afghanistan wasn't justified in 2003. How can people really know if they're not around while the actions are taking place?

Right now people may think Afghanistan wasn't justified.. but Sept 12th 2001, there wasn't anyone who thought it was a bad idea.

False. It made no sense at the time. It still doesn’t.