Dreams become reality: Guy that ran 9:59 in HS was just named to 2019 US World Championships marathon team

New England Guy wrote:

Congrats, but he was a 14:09/29:48 guy in college so it's not like he is a nobody.

14;09/29:48 is a nobody in college. Who looks as at those times and thinks future Worlds participant?

Dur wrote:

New England Guy wrote:

Congrats, but he was a 14:09/29:48 guy in college so it's not like he is a nobody.

14;09/29:48 is a nobody in college. Who looks as at those times and thinks future Worlds participant?

That is a very solid starting point for someone on a sensible year-to-year development program, who isn't being sucked dry by the typical college coach/vampire.

Good for him.

I would like to represent Canada internationally one day and had a slightly slower HS time than him. (3000m 9:25)

First of all what makes you think he won’t develop into a 2:10 guy? Perhaps this is what he needed to make that hard work seem worth it - he’s young, continues to train and maybe makes another breakthrough. Just like that women who runs for AUS that was told by IRE that her low 2:30’s wasn’t good enough so she runs for AUS and now she is a 2:24 runner. Bet they wish she would run for them now.

This post is exactly why we don’t have more sub 2:10 runners in the US. You need a ton of 2:13/2:14 guys to find a few that will go under 2:10 - how will you ever get a ton of 2:13/2:14 guys if you treat them like crap. You give them a spot because they earned it and for each one of them 10 guys say, hey I can do that maybe I can make a team. Then the math does the rest. Instead we should celebrate runners like these - and get more of them.

Also for your information no 2:15 guy is satisfied with a 2:15 no matter how much attention you give them. 2:15 has not, does not, and will not ever pay the bills. If you run 2:15 you do so because you train hard and love to run not because you are sponsored or lack the will to improve.

sillyman wrote:

whid wrote:

It's just like the old Wetmore philosophy of being able to do anything with a 9:30 2 miler. you have a bit of fitness and the right mentality for growth and great things can happen over time

Its always about the mentality.

Physical ability is common. Mental fortitude is not.

99% of the posters on this board will never admit it, nor will they understand it. Its an intellectual exercise to them, a session planning process. And all the time bemoaning the talent they think is lacking.

And then its America, where if you haven't met the milestones at certain period of your life, you drop out of the sport. High school. College then off to get a job and become a frustrated jogger.

Very few will do what the NZ twins did, and sacrifice their dreams and live in a straw hut like the first little pig

What were your times in HS and college and why didn't you have mental fortitude? Could Epperson have run 2:13 with your natural ability?

ooooooooo

Tony Sandoval won the 1980 trials while going to medical school --think Bob Kempanian also qualified as a med student in '92

Man, these threads...

1. Going from 9:59-2:13:11 is impressive. That's undeniable. Think of how many American HS kids have run between 9:45-10:00. Now how many of those have ran sub 2:14? Even if you named 10, the percentage would be incredibly low.

2. A single thread read by maybe a couple hundred people is hardly 'celebrating mediocrity'. It's okay to mention extremely rare feats such as this one. When I coach a girl that has never ran before, I am excited and 'celebrate her' when she breaks 6 minutes in the mile, despite the fact she needs to run 4:00 in the 1500 to be World Class. We then use the 'excitement' to continue training and run faster in the future. I would love to see all you negative posters as coaches... "Yeah, you Pr'd by 30 seconds.. big deal... you're still 2 minutes off being Top 10 in the World... Mediocrity will not be celebrated on this team. Get back to training until you no longer suck".

3. Bottom Line: How many of you would seriously bet $1000 or 5% of your yearly income on a 9:59 HS guy (while he's in High School) to go on and make an American World Championship team? If any of you answer yes... pick a single, current 9:59 Senior. I'll give you 100-1 odds. The point is... no one would expect it to happen, so it's acceptable to mention it on a running website filled with threads about virtually nothing.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

means nothing wrote:

high school times mean nothing

there are thousands of athletes in the NCAA that had horrible high school training but are now performing extremely well despite unimpressive high school marks. they were talented but severely undertrained in high school.

a 14:09 guy isn't an underdog story for the marathon.

Jonas Hampton has run fast by sheer force of will. Mad respect for that.

HS times mean nothing? How is it that only the guys with great times receive scholarships? How many of these thousands of guys with unimpressive HS times can you name? From my experience, it was far more common for 9:00 guys to struggle in college than for 9:30 runners to excel.

Cam Levin's greatest accomplishment in HS was sub-4 1500m and 4th at the provincial HS champs. A solid achievement compared to most but not exactly an A level recruit. SUU also certainly isn't a notable school to attend either. Yet Levin's still won the Bowerman and made the Canadian OG team in his senior year.

HS times are nice if you want a fat scholarship your freshman year, but a majority of HS studs burn out and don't improve much. They reach their genetic peak super early or can't handle the pressure. I lost count of how many athletes in Canada I've personally trained with whom break records, make world juniors, then are swallowed by the NCAA system and never accomplish anything.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

means nothing wrote:

high school times mean nothing

there are thousands of athletes in the NCAA that had horrible high school training but are now performing extremely well despite unimpressive high school marks. they were talented but severely undertrained in high school.

a 14:09 guy isn't an underdog story for the marathon.

Jonas Hampton has run fast by sheer force of will. Mad respect for that.

HS times mean nothing? How is it that only the guys with great times receive scholarships? How many of these thousands of guys with unimpressive HS times can you name? From my experience, it was far more common for 9:00 guys to struggle in college than for 9:30 runners to excel.

you prove my point you fool. take a 8:56 kid who runs 90 miles a week in high school and a 10:00 kid who runs 20 miles a week in high school. 10 years out, that 10:00 kid will be faster than the 8:56 kid 90% of the time if they both continue to train hard.

means nothing wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

HS times mean nothing? How is it that only the guys with great times receive scholarships? How many of these thousands of guys with unimpressive HS times can you name? From my experience, it was far more common for 9:00 guys to struggle in college than for 9:30 runners to excel.

you prove my point you fool. take a 8:56 kid who runs 90 miles a week in high school and a 10:00 kid who runs 20 miles a week in high school. 10 years out, that 10:00 kid will be faster than the 8:56 kid 90% of the time if they both continue to train hard.

So if your a college coach, you should get a list of 10:00 guys that ran about 20 mpw? There are not thousand of guys like that now running well in college. A 20 mpw 10:00 runner is unlikely to compete in college. Can you name one of your estimated thousands of such runners?

Not only is it impressive for a 9:59 HS runner to later run 5:05 pace for a marathon, it's impossible. There's some story behind the 9:59 and that he didn't run until his senior year is the most likely. Despite what some people have posted, 2:13 is an outstanding time. It's far from world class and he won't make an Olympic team, but it would be equivalent to being an average player in MLB.

A 2:13 guy would need the potential to have run at least 9:10 in HS. I ran against Dennis Rinde in HS who later ran a 2:12. His HS PR was 9:35, but he was often injured and I actually beat him a few times. However, during his senior year of XC he ran some excellent races that were equivalent to sub 9:10, so to say he went from 9:35 to 2:12 would not be accurate.

[quote]SalmonRice wrote:

One of the issues with US distance running the celebration of mediocrity. 2:13 is a farce and this guy will be lucky to break top 30 at worlds, which is already a watered down affair. I'd be shocked if he ever breaks top 200 in the official world rankings his whole career. But other awful white runners who gave up on their dream will live vicariously through him. Believing that working full time someone makes 2:13 more impressive than a sub-2:10. (B/c all those sub 2:10 runners in the 80s obviously never worked full time while still ranning incredibly fast).

"all those sub 2:10 runners in the 80s..."

Complete list of sub 2:10 in the 80'S:

Alberto Salazar - 2:08:51 Boston 1982

Dick Beardsley - 2:08:53 Boston 1982

Greg Meyer - 2:09:00 Boston 1983 (wind year)

Alberto Salazar - 2:09:21 Fukuoka 1983

Alberto Salazar - 2:09:29 New York 1982

Ron Tabb - 2:09:31 Boston 1983 (wind year)

Dick Beardsley - 2:09:37 Grandma's 1981

Ken Martin - 2:09:38 New York 1989

Alberto Salazar - 2:09:40 New York 1980

Benji Durden - 2:09:57 Boston 1983 (wind year)

Thank you for posting this, this thread was becoming unreadable until you chimed in. Having seen guys in the 2:20-2:30 range dedicate all of their spare time to training, I have crazy respect for people who are on the next level and working full time. Sometimes people here act so arrogant that they seem almost disconnected from the sport. “He’s 250th in the country. Sooo impressive” sounds like something my mom would say

Yes, What He said ^^^^ While we all understand that there are plenty of East Africans who run faster than this, it's still worth celebrating improvements and successes. There are few improvement stories like Andrew's, and Coach Siemers is Absolutely one of the best in the business. Keep up the great work Andrew. There are a lot of us who are watching and cheering!

Too darn Marathon focused around here. Eight-hundred metres to Marathon requires road mileage of at least thirty miles a week. The next U.S. male runner from events 800m to Marathon to earn an Olympic gold will be an 800m runner. Glamorizing this Andrew Epperson guy shows members of running community in U.S. are losing focus. Lets get the 800m figured out. This Epperson fella is like a 2:02 or 2:03 high school 800m runner to 1:47 or 1:48 800m runner as an adult. Nothing to see here people. Keep it moving.

Ed Spinney 4 10 mile in college, 3 57 after for AW in early 80 s

Art has done a fantastic job of developing runners both at Mines and now at CSU. Mines was an after thought before he got there and CSU is now a national contender (if only their top peg would stop cratering at XC nationals). They’ve gone top 10 two years in a row with their best runner (usually a top 15 level guy) contributing zero points). And he’s doing it with a lot of in state talent.

+1