PR’d by over a minute in Skechers Razor 3 recently. Ask me anything.

Your comment surprises me. I think they're pretty roomy. I certainly don't have any issues with them being narrow and I definitely have normal-width (not narrow) feet.

DC Wonk wrote:

The Razor 3 is too narrow in the mid foot for even average feet IMO. As fast as flexibility, they are fairly flexible. I don’t like the straight last for a speed shoe - would prefer curved. I use my pair for training. I race in ZF SP because these are the fastest shoes for me.

Reasonably flexible. Similar to Saucony Kinvara if you happen to have those or have picked them up in a store and bent them.

mwh wrote:

Nice. Are they flexible? (I've awful achilles issues which make shoe flexibility my #1 priority and (happily) rule out any stiff carbon plates.)

theJeff wrote:

13.1

Almost exactly a minute PR

1:3x:xx

I can j go 10 minutes faster in my Champion Gusto CT. Maybe you should get a pair since they clearly work better.

theJeff wrote:

I def have my eye on the ZFFK. 2oz heavier, but still seems like a great lightweight trainer/long distance racer.

If you setup a search on eb**, you can find the ZF SP for ridiculous prices. I got a brand new in box pair for $42. There are plenty colors out there so you can always find them. Hard to be beat at that price.

So Jeff this Razor 3, how much mid foot flex is there? And how much effort do you have to put in to get it to flex? How hard is the heel back and counter.

Ha! Those are all really subjective...

Heel counter exists, but not as an external plate. I have never noticed it until you asked.

I would say above average flexibility. More so than my Beacons, less so than my Topo ST-2s...

The Floyd wrote:

Your comment surprises me. I think they're pretty roomy. I certainly don't have any issues with them being narrow and I definitely have normal-width (not narrow) feet.

DC Wonk wrote:

The Razor 3 is too narrow in the mid foot for even average feet IMO. As fast as flexibility, they are fairly flexible. I don’t like the straight last for a speed shoe - would prefer curved. I use my pair for training. I race in ZF SP because these are the fastest shoes for me.

I agree w Floyd. These have ample room, esp for something considered to be a racer.

So, you are an expert on shoes, run a marathon over 3 hours and haul a tire around with you as you run. My, you must be the talk of your community with those credentials. Why not just run up hills, works better than trying to drag a stupid tire behind your back.. I would at least use a screen over some dirt area, so I can put grass seed down on a nice flat piece of ground.

Champion proponent wrote:

theJeff wrote:

13.1

Almost exactly a minute PR

1:3x:xx

I can j go 10 minutes faster in my Champion Gusto CT. Maybe you should get a pair since they clearly work better.

Yeah this is a problem. PR'ing by only a minute on a 1:3x HM is meaningless when a few weeks of hard training will get you a better PR regardless of shoe.

Come back with a minute PR vs a recently run sub 1:20 on a similar course and I'll start listening.

theJeff wrote:

Ha! Those are all really subjective...

Heel counter exists, but not as an external plate. I have never noticed it until you asked.

I would say above average flexibility. More so than my Beacons, less so than my Topo ST-2s...

I get your answer sort of but what I was meaning is if you hold a razor 3 shoe with an end in each hand, does it flex easily? For example the Zoom Flys doesn't have any mid-foot flex, so it is dangerous for me.

BTW have you tried the sub2?

theJeff wrote:

Ha! Those are all really subjective...

Heel counter exists, but not as an external plate. I have never noticed it until you asked.

I would say above average flexibility. More so than my Beacons, less so than my Topo ST-2s...

what are your thoughts on the topo ST-2???

duckbilled flattypus wrote:

theJeff wrote:

Ha! Those are all really subjective...

Heel counter exists, but not as an external plate. I have never noticed it until you asked.

I would say above average flexibility. More so than my Beacons, less so than my Topo ST-2s...

what are your thoughts on the topo ST-2???

Very comfortable to wear around; I love the shape of Topos. Best in the industry.

Very minimal cushion. Although they are very lightweight - 6ish oz - you can get a lot more cushion for the weight. 12mm/12mm, iirc

Still, a fine workout shoe for anyone with an efficient gait, and a very comfy walking-around shoe. Also, $90 retail is unfortunately unheard of these days.

Jacksonville wrote:

So, you are an expert on shoes, run a marathon over 3 hours and haul a tire around with you as you run. My, you must be the talk of your community with those credentials. Why not just run up hills, works better than trying to drag a stupid tire behind your back.. I would at least use a screen over some dirt area, so I can put grass seed down on a nice flat piece of ground.

I run up hills all the time. Did you know that once you run up a hill, you then have to run back down? Whereas you can pull a tire for a 10 mile easy run, get that same benefit continuously, and really start to transform your gait into something that propels you forward? I would STRONGLY recommend it for anyone who came into running late in life and doesn’t already have an efficient stride programmed into their physiology.

Do you have anything positive to add?

Subway Surfers wrote:

theJeff wrote:

Ha! Those are all really subjective...

Heel counter exists, but not as an external plate. I have never noticed it until you asked.

I would say above average flexibility. More so than my Beacons, less so than my Topo ST-2s...

I get your answer sort of but what I was meaning is if you hold a razor 3 shoe with an end in each hand, does it flex easily? For example the Zoom Flys doesn't have any mid-foot flex, so it is dangerous for me.

BTW have you tried the sub2?

Yes, they definitely flex. From what I am hearing from you, there is nothing about the flex of the R3 that should discourage you from trying it.

No Sub2; they only made it up to a 12, I think ?

maffeboner wrote:

Champion proponent wrote:

I can j go 10 minutes faster in my Champion Gusto CT. Maybe you should get a pair since they clearly work better.

Yeah this is a problem. PR'ing by only a minute on a 1:3x HM is meaningless when a few weeks of hard training will get you a better PR regardless of shoe.

Come back with a minute PR vs a recently run sub 1:20 on a similar course and I'll start listening.

It sounds like you are implying that I wore these shoes INSTEAD of training hard for a few weeks.

theJeff wrote:

Also, $90 retail is unfortunately unheard of these days.

Um, I've told you dozens of times about a better option for just $30.

theJeff wrote:

Subway Surfers wrote:

I get your answer sort of but what I was meaning is if you hold a razor 3 shoe with an end in each hand, does it flex easily? For example the Zoom Flys doesn't have any mid-foot flex, so it is dangerous for me.

BTW have you tried the sub2?

Yes, they definitely flex. From what I am hearing from you, there is nothing about the flex of the R3 that should discourage you from trying it.

No Sub2; they only made it up to a 12, I think ?

Thanks Jeff

Running Warehouse is sold out in serious sizes.