Great run by Dakota @ Pikes Peak. Seems like he's doing the Imogene Pass Run in 3 weeks on September 8th.
Curious to see how close he gets to this course record. This is a 17.1 mile run & the record has stood since 1993.
Matt Carpenter has the record @ 2:05:56. Set the record on September 11th & on August 22nd he set the Pikes Peak marathon record. What a year for Matt in 93!
I think our sweet spot can as we get older and hopefully gain experience. Obviously there is a genetic factor involved as well as specific training focus...periodization over months and years. I admit to being all over the place with "Any Surface Any Distance." It's nice HOKA ONE ONE makes a shoe for each type of event nowadays! I've actually been fairly consistent with road marathons over the years....I ran 4 marathons within 10 months in 2015-2016 and they all were between 2:19:12 and 2:20:30. This year I also ran 2:19:50 at Houston before my 2:23 disaster at Copenhagen. Obviously I'm not sponsored to be a road marathon runner and I know where those kinds of times stand in a US national ranking. The goal was always just to qualify again for the trials once every 4 years (even though I've already been to two of them). My last win? March at the Shamrock Run 15km in Portland, OR. Obviously not a super competitive race but it was actually a pretty big race compared to a lot of trail ultras. MUT Running (all distance running in general) can be very fickle. Injury, illness, poor nutrition etc. can influence performances over time. In my case a lot of times it can be "over racing" as well. I admit to racing A LOT. Pikes Peak was technically my 5th marathon this year... As I get older I want to "move up" more in the ultra distances and actually do well at some of the big-time 100-milers. Maybe that will never happen...I don't know. I'd like to try to stay in this sport for as long as possible. I feel like guys in their late 30s and even early 40s can still rock 100-milers. I love all forms of distance running - and I don't take a single day for granted as I know it can all end with an injury/accident very suddenly. I've always been a "long slow distance guy" so usually the longer the race the better. I started running marathons in college and was running half marathons in high school. My Vo2max isn't very high so generally 5km/10km on the track and even half marathon (on flat roads) is for sure a "no-go." I sucked at the 5km on the track in college and it was not in my wheelhouse ever really. Obviously also as I age the shorter events (for me "short" is a half marathon now!) I won't be as competitive at. There is a certain aspect of "old man strength" when it comes to the mountains and marathons and ultras though. I also think it is hard to compete at "high Vo2max" as one ages...hence the longer event focus. There are tons of other limiting factors in ultras from nutrition to variable running economy and sheer muscle fatigue. I want to be in this sport for the Long Run (pun intended). As far as only having "success" at two races? Well I've been top 3 at MT. WA every year I've done it (5 times)...I've also won the Tarawera 100km in New Zealand twice...and I've won the TNF50 in San Fran (only won once there though). I've consistently been on the podium at Transvulcania (3rd three times)...which is not great but it is a fairly extreme "SkyRunning style" course. I've raced quite a bit over the years pretty much non-stop and for sure there have been some epic meltdowns and disasters. In the MUT scene I generally try to pick the more competitive and "iconic" races...which also tend to "inspire" me the most. It is a luxury to be able to have some international travel support to get to a lot of these races and i don't take that for granted either. The competitive depth is obviously much different from the roads/track, but that is why I also like to mix it up at marathon majors and (hopefully) the Olympic Trials again in 2020. Finally there are guys (and gals) who are doping that are displacing clean runners in this sport. Whether is is a matter of moving people back in the rankings/results or taking away sponsorship slots it is happening. Like I've said before this sport has some very lucrative aspects to it from international travel perks to an ego boost in "social media following" and career/life changing opportunities.
Where from here? wrote:
Sage, where do you see your career going from here? I can’t remember when your last win was, and, very generally, you kind of have only really had consistent “success” at two races (Speedgoat and Lake Sanoma). You talk about doing any race, any surface, any distance but, has that been a reality for you? I know you talk about drugs in the sport, but that really hasn’t been what’s prevented you from success at 100 mile races. Do you see yourself just content to be a top 10 guy at variety of races? Or are you thinking about some specificity? Maybe trying to win a race like Leadville?
Not meaning to sound harsh - I actually want to see you win, but wonder where that sweet spot is for you.
Shoutout to Sage for providing his honest perspective.. I really do appreciate the total brutal honesty.
Not to make this a thread about Sage.. I am not a Sage guy really but I gotta say he's a beast at anything 100K or less. Black Canyon 100K CR.. win at a highly competitive Lake Sonoma 50.
I do see him thriving eventually in the 100M distance, however, I think he needs to loosen up his diet a little bit to do so. It seems like Sage eats super clean 24/7 and I am not sure that's the right approach for the long distance ultras. You really need to take down nutritionally dense meals to fuel your body for the long haul.
However, I am not saying that you can't do it on a vegetarian diet (look at Jim Walmsley). I am just saying, if I were in Sage's shoes, I would try eating pizza and other high calorie foods more often and see if it improved performance in a positive way.
This is just my experience (as a guy who finishes top 10-15 in most ultras) , but I find that when I eat some junk food leading up to the long races I actually have more success vs. going into it with a clean diet. My theory behind this is that I can store more glycogen in my muscles, which come in handy during the latter stages of a race.
When I go into races super lean.. or on a very clean diet, I always feel flat and bonk hard at the end of races. I think the extra 2-3lbs and additional carbs leading up to the race really helps me perform at my best.
I also want to add that I do not wish to make this thread primarily or heavily about Sage, not that his thoughts aren't welcome of course, and I came up with this thread right around a race of his. It's a general thread, so technically nothing is "off limits", and obviously I am not a moderator nor do I desire to be.
I think diet is the x-factor in 100 mile races (trail) vs 50 mile (trail)
You definitely open yourself up to more potential problems the further out you run.
I agree with the diet thing with longer ultras.
I try to train down at around 160s and then bump to around 170 for the race. I am a bigger guy - ran a sub 3 once at 183 even.
When I did the opposite however, going from 160s down to high 150s - I’d bonk later in races.
Pace is the most important aspect of a successful race. Most runners can't pace a 5k properly. A 100 mile race is much more difficult than that.
Jim isn’t vegetarian. Plenty of times that boy has scarfed down non vegetarian meals. I’d give him 80% veggie
Kudos for using the ultrasignup rankings for some basic analysis, but unfortunately it's a bit too basic. you're assuming that all of the races Sage did are equally competitive to be able to use those percentages. I'd bet that the shorter trail races he had listed on ultrasignup are much less competitive than the 100k-100 milers he's done.
the same goes for my ultrasignup, I have a ranking in the 90s because I ran a bunch of 5 mile ish trail races that were listed on ultrasignup. I either won or got 2nd in all of those, and then won a bunch of 25k-35k races. The 50ks I've done have been more competitive so my % goes down to the 80-90% range, even for my "good" races.
anyway...
nice response Sage, it's good to hear what you think about your own history. wish more "elites" would post on here with their thoughts on their own careers. however, you gotta stop cheesing in your gopro shots in the mountains. you could make your videos a drinking game by counting the # of times you do a selfie smile while running in the mountains.
What is the depth like at UTMB this year? Who are the favourites and who is in form?
Kilian appears to be in good form but will Jim get the race right this year and win?
Pretty much sums it up. It will be Kilian and Jim up front and the likes of Thevenard, Tim Tollefson or Luis Alberto fighting it for 3rd place.
Zach Miller seems to have been around Mont-Blanc for a few weeks now so he might also factor in, especially with his racing tactics!
It will be interesting to follow. Still the most depth in any mountain ultra even without someone like D'Haene..
I am a fan of Sage. He seems to be a good guy and I've noticed other in the sport always mention that about him. Humble and a wonderful ambassador for the sport. I enjoy the goofy videos. Once his competitive days are over, I have no doubt he will be successful in what he does.
He's having a rough patch the last couple years undoubtedly.
Seeing Krar come back with such a huge performance after a long layoff due to injury got me to thinking about Sage and how often he races. The armchair quarterback in me says Sage needs to take an extended break. Problem is he never seems to get injured, haha. And being a sponsored athlete likely makes taking a long break unfeasible. I'd imagine that's a tough spot to be in when your livelihood is competing.
Dakota is my favorite. Call me a fanboy. The fact that he biked 250 miles to the start is even better.
A friend who ran PPM (and knows Matt) said Matt heard Dakota was coming down fast, and met Dakota at the finish, congratulating him on breaking the descent CR. Matt also didn't know Krar was running Leadville, but wished him well and hoped he would break the record. Cool guy.
Quote from Matt: "If you're not falling on the downhills, you're not going fast enough."
[quote]S. Canaday wrote:
...
I feel like guys in their late 30s and even early 40s can still rock 100-milers.
[quote]
You do realize that Browning is now 47? ;-) Does OK...mostly on low-carb BTW. Metabolic flexibility is where it is at.
UTMBDepth wrote:
What is the depth like at UTMB this year? Who are the favourites and who is in form?
Kilian appears to be in good form but will Jim get the race right this year and win?
Jim is making me a bit nervous with his runs this week. They seem like too much for a guy who should be tapering, but he knows his body I guess. With that being said though, his last 6 weeks or so of training has been utterly awe-inspiring to watch on Strava. If he has a good day, I don't see anyone staying anywhere close to the guy.
If Kilian and Walmsley both have goods days I think Kilian wins at UTMB.
Jim's workouts will be hard to beat anytime soon, of course, it remains to be seen how he responds to this training. From a mental standpoint, maybe he'd rather be kinda of tired heading into UTMB knowing he can grind it out, but I am totally spit-balling here.
I've been following Kilian's workouts on Movescount, and I swear at some points his pace suggests he is literally climbing rather than running. That man loves his mountains.
Also, some other threads that may be of interest, I haven't gone through all of them, so my bad if they are filled with trolls
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8938974
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8925025
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8847385
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8744058
(Interesting if controversial)
Props to Kimmel for setting the record. She is 3rd in the Golden Trail rankings and has been a good mountain runner for quite some time after taking up the sport later than most.
joecrunner wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_MansfieldWoops! Yeah that was a big name I blanked on, btw this is the tallest mountain in VT.
joecrunner, gotta tease you about this post, have you ever run back East? I guess you're just stirring the pot a little. Sinclair lives in VT now but was in Flagstaff for most of his training this past year, from what I understand.
The weight issue for ultras (not so much in short mountain racing) is interesting, and I think we will learn more about that over the years. But an even bigger issue is over-racing and longevity. I think marketing departments and agents will start to understand that requiring their athletes to compete in 8+ MUT races in a year sabotages the investment.
Athletes like Courtney Duwaulter (sp?) muddy the waters, but for most talented pros a dense ultra schedule will lead to mediocre results and/or burnout. And Sage is right on about drug-testing in the sport, this is another angle on it. If a prominent athlete races twice a month and keeps knocking them out of the park, but is taking drugs to aid recovery, others will follow the example without drugs and wonder why they keep tanking.
unrelated, DJ got a lot of attention at Pikes peak, I think Kim Dobson's performance was also stellar. She beat Alex Nichols outright, it's an impressive return to racing after having kids.
seems pretty obvious that Alex ran it easy ...