Mountain/Ultra/Trail General Thread

Sage, or any others on here. I really hope this thread takes off, and looking forward to some good discussions!

Leadville: Krar is in the final 5-10 miles....will probably win by quite a bit. Last I heard he fell back behind CR pace a bit...but who knows...he can close hard and the course has been altered over the years. Side note: Didn't he finish pretty well in the mountain bike race just last weekend? Addie Bracy lead until about 60 miles for the women...but now Katie is in the lead. Pikes Peak: The Ascent was cut short today to only 7.6 miles and topping out at 10,000'. I really hope that doesn't happen tomorrow in the Marathon. If we have to turn around at Barr Camp I think guys like Max King will be able to do even better (since he told me he hasn't been doing super high altitude training above 10,000'). I personally really want to go up to the summit at 14,000' and make it a 26 mile race. The trail above Barr Camp is generally steeper and more technical. It would totally change the dynamic of the race. My final thoughts: There is a lot of lucrative international travel, sponsorship money, and "career changing" opportunities in the sport of MUT. I really wish there was some real, surprise drug testing for PEDs. I know testing is expensive, but the sport is for sure not 100% clean. We've seen guys who have been top 10 at UMTB on EPO in the past already...same goes for former EPO positive runners racing Sierre-Zinal. It is a tough, fickle sport and ultra running/training is quite hard on the body (so is hard track interval training and road marathon training though!). Track speed and road marathon PRs don't necessarily transfer directly to some mountain-ultra-trail events but they are all very different in course profile. There is for sure a high correlation. It is much like trying to match up someone's mile PR with what they might run in a road marathon. I respect #AnySurfaceAnyDistance and have always seen myself as just a "distance runner." (for sure not a "mountain athlete" and an "ultra runner").

joecrunner wrote:

Sage, or any others on here. I really hope this thread takes off, and looking forward to some good discussions!

15:51:57, oh so close! What a performance!

I heard there is a battle for the women's race.

They changed it due to weather? (Pikes) Interesting, thunderstorm or something?

Shortening the race to 15.2 miles definitely changes things up, if I was an athlete capable of winning Pikes Marathon, I'd be annoyed at the difference, but I suppose all one can do is give it their A game.

Is there no surprise testing down in MUT?

Good luck tomorrow Sage, I look forward to reading or listening to your post-race report, assuming you wish to post it here or elsewhere. Short or regular, it should be a battle for the win.

Great run by Krar, especially since he does so much MTB nowadays... just super fit and lean.

I think this makes people reassess that Carpenter's 15:42 is not as untouchable as many have thought. Krar can't light a candle to any of Walmsley's times around Flag up or down... I think Walmsley runs it next year and demolishes the CR.

Megan Kimmel sets a new marathon distance record at Pikes Peak in 4:15

Dakota Jones wins in 3:32:19 after biking 250 miles in 4 days to the race.

Sage finished in 6th place overall.

Max King had a rough day it seems.

@SageCanaday

Rough day at the #PikesPeakMarathon for me (i was 6th in 3:48)Not the time or place i was hoping for. I apologize to all the runners that heard me swear (F-word shouting) and cry when i fell on the rocks...may have broken finger...but knee prob wont need stiches. Congrats Runners

I think just about anyone would drop some f bombs with a broken finger, sorry it wasn't the race you wanted! Props for toughing it out!

Glad this thread is started- it'll be cool to chat about ongoing stuff in the MUT world, and hopefully a good place to ask questions.

Super excited to see Rob Krar win at Leadville, I know he was coming off a pretty big knee surgery this year, so it's awesome to see him back in form.

Here's something a friend and I were talking about this weekend: Have any of you used Maurten for ultra races? The whole hydrogel/super high calorie drink idea seems like it could be a godsend for ultra athletes with sensitive stomachs. Anyone have experience or thoughts on this?

That's my goal, hopefully as it grows it will attract more posters, and given that these boards aren't focused on MUT, I figure it's a good place for the community to go to.

I haven't tried that stuff, but I'll look into it as sometimes I feel a little nauseous after downing regular gels or blocks.

lkajk wrote:

Great run by Krar, especially since he does so much MTB nowadays... just super fit and lean.

I think this makes people reassess that Carpenter's 15:42 is not as untouchable as many have thought. Krar can't light a candle to any of Walmsley's times around Flag up or down... I think Walmsley runs it next year and demolishes the CR.

I actually agree that Walmsley might run Leadville next year, but I'd say there's a much larger chance that he will run Hardrock. he's run on the course so much in the last few years, you know he wants to do it now that he's smashed WS finally.

comparing Krar to Jim...who knows what Krar ran in Flag. don't think he'd been on Strava for long. don't forget that Rob was a 4:00ish miler back in the day too.

reed wrote:

lkajk wrote:

Great run by Krar, especially since he does so much MTB nowadays... just super fit and lean.

I think this makes people reassess that Carpenter's 15:42 is not as untouchable as many have thought. Krar can't light a candle to any of Walmsley's times around Flag up or down... I think Walmsley runs it next year and demolishes the CR.

I actually agree that Walmsley might run Leadville next year, but I'd say there's a much larger chance that he will run Hardrock. he's run on the course so much in the last few years, you know he wants to do it now that he's smashed WS finally.

comparing Krar to Jim...who knows what Krar ran in Flag. don't think he'd been on Strava for long. don't forget that Rob was a 4:00ish miler back in the day too.

Krar is in his 40s and Walmsley is 28. Big difference. Krar is an absolute legend in the sport, and it was incredible to see him return to such a high level of competition this year. Hope he keeps it rolling!

I've tried Maurten in a few Trail races. I thought it was great when I used in a road marathon and it helped me to an OTQ. However in longer trail races it just messes with my stomach and gives me digestive issues and generally tastes like crap and is too sweet. I think you are better off with traditional sports drink since you're going slower so it's easier to digest regular gels and drinks. Just my two cents though; might be worth a try for others.

How about some love for David Sinclair?

He wins Speedgoat, beating Sage. And yesterday, places 5th and less than a minute off 2nd - also beating Sage, this time even more soundly - almost 8 minutes.

On top of it all, he lives in VERMONT!

I’ll give props to David Sinclair. Guy also ran a 2:16 marathon in Dec and never even ran in college...he also won the 50km USATF trail champs last weekend. I ran like crap yesterday...i have no excuses. I was also not very hapy with how i ran at Speedgoat. Dakota ran an amazing downhill at Pikes. 1:13 is hauling down the Barr Trail. The ream of MUT is very diverse and each course has its unique set of challenges

Vermont802 wrote:

How about some love for David Sinclair?

He wins Speedgoat, beating Sage. And yesterday, places 5th and less than a minute off 2nd - also beating Sage, this time even more soundly - almost 8 minutes.

On top of it all, he lives in VERMONT!

Woops! Yeah that was a big name I blanked on, btw this is the tallest mountain in VT.

Here's a recent and lengthy interview with Walmsley where he states he's interested in the US Road 50 mile AR, Matt Carpenters Pike Peak CR, Olympic Marathon Qualify with a half, etc. He also jokingly says he'd take a stab at an age group Appalachian Trail FKT when he gets to his 40s.

https://youtu.be/Z-Yb9Hwk3mI

*and by "ream" I mean "realm"...although 480-520 different types of major MUT Running courses around the world would be quite diverse!*

With respect to records and such, remember Matt Carpenter was only a 2:19 marathoner and only went 59-min at MT. WA. Track/Road speed doesn't always translate to the mountains directly remember. It also depends on the event distance. 4:00 milers aren't always great marathon runners.

However, nobody is getting close to that 3:16 on Pikes....at least on the course as I see it nowadays. His Pikes Record is much, much more stout than the Leadville one (which I have always said is quite beatable).

Sage, where do you see your career going from here? I can’t remember when your last win was, and, very generally, you kind of have only really had consistent “success” at two races (Speedgoat and Lake Sanoma). You talk about doing any race, any surface, any distance but, has that been a reality for you? I know you talk about drugs in the sport, but that really hasn’t been what’s prevented you from success at 100 mile races. Do you see yourself just content to be a top 10 guy at variety of races? Or are you thinking about some specificity? Maybe trying to win a race like Leadville?

Not meaning to sound harsh - I actually want to see you win, but wonder where that sweet spot is for you.

Decided to do an ultrasignup age graded assessment of your performances, Sage:

Marathon trail distance or below: 98.56%

50k trail: 98.28%

50 miles: 98.49%

100k: 96.39%

100 miler: 81.67%

Unusual distanced races: 97.61%

Based off this, I think you are best at (or have had the most success at so far) with the 1/2 marathon trail-100k trail distance, obviously this doesn't feature every race, but interesting stats.

Have you thought of doing more high altitude races? Your 2:10 ascent at Pikes Peak and 5:08 Speedgoat stand out.