Deer Daphne Schippers: no one thinks you are on steroids.

TrackCoach wrote:

Interesting... wrote:

Daphne and Elaine are the most obvious dopers in women's sprinting. Ridiculous progression from both.

I am always careful not to call athletes out as dirty, in fact, I usually defend athletes. However, in the case of Schippers and Thompson, I feel they are the 2 most likely dopers in all of track & field. Classic sprint champions like Veronica Campbell-Brown and Allyson Felix were stars from the beginning. VCB is among the most decorated sprinters ever, she won Jamaica's H.S. Champs multiple times, World Youth, World Juniors and several NCAA titles. Likewise, Felix, is an American H.S. sprint legend, as a high school senior she ran over 4 10ths of a second faster than the NCAA champion and at age 18 she won the silver medal in the 2004 Olympics losing the VCB. Felix and Campbell have spent over a decade mastering the art of the 200m, it took them over 10 years to get down to 21.69 for Felix and 21.74 for VCB. In the 2015 World Championships, Daphne Schippers and Elaine Thompson finish first and second in the 200m, runner faster than Felix and VCB ever did. Both of them ran the fastest times in decades. The only women ahead of them on the all-time list are Florence Griffith-Joyner and women who we know their results are chemically enhanced.

Elaine Thompson never finished higher than 4th at the Jamaica's H.S. Champs with a high school 100m PR of 12.01 and prior to 2015 her 100m PR was 11.26 and she couldn't even make Jamaica's national team. In one year, Thompson went from an athlete who could not make her country's national team to the Olympic 200m silver medalist and the 4th faster woman in history. Prior to 2014 Schippers was a heptathlete, a very good one and she had good sprint speed. She won several national sprint titles and some European titles, but never can close making a global championship sprint final. Prior to 2014, Schippers 200m PR was 22.84 and in the 2015 World Championships she lowered her 200m PR to an astonishing 21.63, making her the 3rd faster woman in history.

With all of that said, not all progressions are like what we expect to see with Felix and Campbell for example. Sometimes an athlete has a breakout season; however, but even a breakout season has to fit within reality. No one would be surprised to see an 18 year old go from 23 seconds to 22.5 in one season, but to go from journeyman sprinter in their mid-20s to running the fastest times in history is simply very hard to believe.

If you think Schippers and Thompson are clean, I will accept any of the follow, Stupid, Insane, Foolish, Extremely Naïve or Extremely Nationalistic. In fact, if you believe athletes can have a progression like Schippers and Thompson, don't ever question FloJo.

TrackCoach wrote:

Interesting... wrote:

Daphne and Elaine are the most obvious dopers in women's sprinting. Ridiculous progression from both.

I am always careful not to call athletes out as dirty, in fact, I usually defend athletes. However, in the case of Schippers and Thompson, I feel they are the 2 most likely dopers in all of track & field. Classic sprint champions like Veronica Campbell-Brown and Allyson Felix were stars from the beginning. VCB is among the most decorated sprinters ever, she won Jamaica's H.S. Champs multiple times, World Youth, World Juniors and several NCAA titles. Likewise, Felix, is an American H.S. sprint legend, as a high school senior she ran over 4 10ths of a second faster than the NCAA champion and at age 18 she won the silver medal in the 2004 Olympics losing the VCB. Felix and Campbell have spent over a decade mastering the art of the 200m, it took them over 10 years to get down to 21.69 for Felix and 21.74 for VCB. In the 2015 World Championships, Daphne Schippers and Elaine Thompson finish first and second in the 200m, runner faster than Felix and VCB ever did. Both of them ran the fastest times in decades. The only women ahead of them on the all-time list are Florence Griffith-Joyner and women who we know their results are chemically enhanced.

Elaine Thompson never finished higher than 4th at the Jamaica's H.S. Champs with a high school 100m PR of 12.01 and prior to 2015 her 100m PR was 11.26 and she couldn't even make Jamaica's national team. In one year, Thompson went from an athlete who could not make her country's national team to the Olympic 200m silver medalist and the 4th faster woman in history. Prior to 2014 Schippers was a heptathlete, a very good one and she had good sprint speed. She won several national sprint titles and some European titles, but never can close making a global championship sprint final. Prior to 2014, Schippers 200m PR was 22.84 and in the 2015 World Championships she lowered her 200m PR to an astonishing 21.63, making her the 3rd faster woman in history.

With all of that said, not all progressions are like what we expect to see with Felix and Campbell for example. Sometimes an athlete has a breakout season; however, but even a breakout season has to fit within reality. No one would be surprised to see an 18 year old go from 23 seconds to 22.5 in one season, but to go from journeyman sprinter in their mid-20s to running the fastest times in history is simply very hard to believe.

If you think Schippers and Thompson are clean, I will accept any of the follow, Stupid, Insane, Foolish, Extremely Naïve or Extremely Nationalistic. In fact, if you believe athletes can have a progression like Schippers and Thompson, don't ever question FloJo.

TrackCoach wrote:

Interesting... wrote:

Daphne and Elaine are the most obvious dopers in women's sprinting. Ridiculous progression from both.

I am always careful not to call athletes out as dirty, in fact, I usually defend athletes. However, in the case of Schippers and Thompson, I feel they are the 2 most likely dopers in all of track & field. Classic sprint champions like Veronica Campbell-Brown and Allyson Felix were stars from the beginning. VCB is among the most decorated sprinters ever, she won Jamaica's H.S. Champs multiple times, World Youth, World Juniors and several NCAA titles. Likewise, Felix, is an American H.S. sprint legend, as a high school senior she ran over 4 10ths of a second faster than the NCAA champion and at age 18 she won the silver medal in the 2004 Olympics losing the VCB. Felix and Campbell have spent over a decade mastering the art of the 200m, it took them over 10 years to get down to 21.69 for Felix and 21.74 for VCB. In the 2015 World Championships, Daphne Schippers and Elaine Thompson finish first and second in the 200m, runner faster than Felix and VCB ever did. Both of them ran the fastest times in decades. The only women ahead of them on the all-time list are Florence Griffith-Joyner and women who we know their results are chemically enhanced.

Elaine Thompson never finished higher than 4th at the Jamaica's H.S. Champs with a high school 100m PR of 12.01 and prior to 2015 her 100m PR was 11.26 and she couldn't even make Jamaica's national team. In one year, Thompson went from an athlete who could not make her country's national team to the Olympic 200m silver medalist and the 4th faster woman in history. Prior to 2014 Schippers was a heptathlete, a very good one and she had good sprint speed. She won several national sprint titles and some European titles, but never can close making a global championship sprint final. Prior to 2014, Schippers 200m PR was 22.84 and in the 2015 World Championships she lowered her 200m PR to an astonishing 21.63, making her the 3rd faster woman in history.

With all of that said, not all progressions are like what we expect to see with Felix and Campbell for example. Sometimes an athlete has a breakout season; however, but even a breakout season has to fit within reality. No one would be surprised to see an 18 year old go from 23 seconds to 22.5 in one season, but to go from journeyman sprinter in their mid-20s to running the fastest times in history is simply very hard to believe.

If you think Schippers and Thompson are clean, I will accept any of the follow, Stupid, Insane, Foolish, Extremely Naïve or Extremely Nationalistic. In fact, if you believe athletes can have a progression like Schippers and Thompson, don't ever question FloJo.

Typing Dynamos wrote:

What did Dafne run in 2011 for the 200 in Daegu when she was 18? You know, a good 4 years before the world championships while still training to do the shot put! And way before you 2014 yr.

She also ran 11.19 as a 18 year old. amazing potential for an 18 yr old.

Both of those times are not far from what any world class athletes would have ran as an 18 yr old.

Now Thompson is a whole other deal.

TrackCoach wrote:

I am always careful not to call athletes out as dirty, in fact, I usually defend athletes. However, in the case of Schippers and Thompson, I feel they are the 2 most likely dopers in all of track & field. Classic sprint champions like Veronica Campbell-Brown and Allyson Felix were stars from the beginning. VCB is among the most decorated sprinters ever, she won Jamaica's H.S. Champs multiple times, World Youth, World Juniors and several NCAA titles. Likewise, Felix, is an American H.S. sprint legend, as a high school senior she ran over 4 10ths of a second faster than the NCAA champion and at age 18 she won the silver medal in the 2004 Olympics losing the VCB. Felix and Campbell have spent over a decade mastering the art of the 200m, it took them over 10 years to get down to 21.69 for Felix and 21.74 for VCB. In the 2015 World Championships, Daphne Schippers and Elaine Thompson finish first and second in the 200m, runner faster than Felix and VCB ever did. Both of them ran the fastest times in decades. The only women ahead of them on the all-time list are Florence Griffith-Joyner and women who we know their results are chemically enhanced.

Elaine Thompson never finished higher than 4th at the Jamaica's H.S. Champs with a high school 100m PR of 12.01 and prior to 2015 her 100m PR was 11.26 and she couldn't even make Jamaica's national team. In one year, Thompson went from an athlete who could not make her country's national team to the Olympic 200m silver medalist and the 4th faster woman in history. Prior to 2014 Schippers was a heptathlete, a very good one and she had good sprint speed. She won several national sprint titles and some European titles, but never can close making a global championship sprint final. Prior to 2014, Schippers 200m PR was 22.84 and in the 2015 World Championships she lowered her 200m PR to an astonishing 21.63, making her the 3rd faster woman in history.

With all of that said, not all progressions are like what we expect to see with Felix and Campbell for example. Sometimes an athlete has a breakout season; however, but even a breakout season has to fit within reality. No one would be surprised to see an 18 year old go from 23 seconds to 22.5 in one season, but to go from journeyman sprinter in their mid-20s to running the fastest times in history is simply very hard to believe.

If you think Schippers and Thompson are clean, I will accept any of the follow, Stupid, Insane, Foolish, Extremely Naïve or Extremely Nationalistic. In fact, if you believe athletes can have a progression like Schippers and Thompson, don't ever question FloJo.

TrackCoach wrote:

[quote]Typing Dynamos wrote:

What did Dafne run in 2011 for the 200 in Daegu when she was 18? You know, a good 4 years before the world championships while still training to do the shot put! And way before you 2014 yr.

She also ran 11.19 as a 18 year old. amazing potential for an 18 yr old.

Both of those times are not far from what any world class athletes would have ran as an 18 yr old.

Now Thompson is a whole other deal.

[quote]TrackCoach wrote:

To be fair, when Schippers ran her 'one-off' 11.19, she was 18 turning 19, so lets call her a junior. In the U.S., that is the age of a college freshman. It is important to point that out because when we talk about Candace Hill or Allyson Felix for example, they turned 18 in the year they ran 10.98 and 22.11 respectively. I refer to Schippers' 11.19 as one-off because her best time the year before was 11.56 and she only ran 11.36 the following year whereas Candace Hill or Allyson ran fast several times. With that said, 11.19 is very fast for a junior under any circumstance, especially for a heptathlete. However, the U.S. usually produces a couple of 11.19 junior sprinters each year and none of them have or were expected to run 21.63. Keep in mind, prior to Felix and VCB, it had been over a decades since women ran under 22 seconds. If Schippers had run 22 flat, I would have been shocked, 21.63 is in the category of unbelievable. The problem with female doping is sometimes you run too fast.

Obviously this is just my opinion, Schippers could be clean and I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Typing Dynamos wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

[quote]Typing Dynamos wrote:

What did Dafne run in 2011 for the 200 in Daegu when she was 18? You know, a good 4 years before the world championships while still training to do the shot put! And way before you 2014 yr.

She also ran 11.19 as a 18 year old. amazing potential for an 18 yr old.

Both of those times are not far from what any world class athletes would have ran as an 18 yr old.

Now Thompson is a whole other deal.

[quote]TrackCoach wrote:

To be fair, when Schippers ran her 'one-off' 11.19, she was 18 turning 19, so lets call her a junior. In the U.S., that is the age of a college freshman. It is important to point that out because when we talk about Candace Hill or Allyson Felix for example, they turned 18 in the year they ran 10.98 and 22.11 respectively. I refer to Schippers' 11.19 as one-off because her best time the year before was 11.56 and she only ran 11.36 the following year whereas Candace Hill or Allyson ran fast several times. With that said, 11.19 is very fast for a junior under any circumstance, especially for a heptathlete. However, the U.S. usually produces a couple of 11.19 junior sprinters each year and none of them have or were expected to run 21.63. Keep in mind, prior to Felix and VCB, it had been over a decades since women ran under 22 seconds. If Schippers had run 22 flat, I would have been shocked, 21.63 is in the category of unbelievable. The problem with female doping is sometimes you run too fast.

Obviously this is just my opinion, Schippers could be clean and I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Are you saying she was only doping for that one meet? Or every race?

Felix, who you think is clean, had shaved off just about the same time off her personal best from when she was 17 (22.83) till when she was 22 (21.81) than Dafne did from 18 (2 months from 17) 22.69 to when she was 23 (21.63). The difference is only .04 seconds.

Felix 17 - 22.83

Felix 22 - 21.81

Dafne 18 - 22.69

Dafne 23 - 21.63

So if Felix is clean then why is Dafne dirty. Dafne's PR's only improved after she focused on sprinting from when she was barely 18. Which makes total sense.

Shes always been very talented as sprinting, but never focused on it, so obviously she would have a little bit different projectory to her PRs, but the times are very similar to your clean Felix!!