Nick Symmonds getting into US because of medal

I totally get where you're coming from. Nick or the 32nd guy won't get out of the first round, it's true. But I think what is trying to be said is that some think it isn't fair that he can just walk into the meet because he was good 4 years ago. And on top of it, he could be taking the spots of young, up and coming 800m runners. But on the other hand, what's the point of the young guys making it, besides getting experience. Because they won't make it out of the first round, and they'll have more opportunities in the future, whereas Nick is done after this year. So yes its a controversial issue, but the rules are the rules, and he's in. Whether people like it or not. For those who didn't qualify, train hard and make it in the years to come! And who knows, maybe with hard work those at the bottom of the list can work their way to the top!

sbeefyk1 wrote:

I mean, I feel bad for you losing your spot to him. But I'm sure the 32nd place qualifier won't make it out of the first round. And, let's be honest, you probably don't have a sponsor paying your way, so in reality, Nick is saving you money from flying up there and running a slow time in a slow first round race and then going home disappointed and posting on a message board complaining that US 800m runners are all garbage for not racing all out in the first round of a national championship event.

Sound about right?

Nope. It sounds exactly right.

One more thing, though. You need spend less time here. It's not good that you are so familiar with the world view of this particular slice of the LRC gang.

He's not been the top 800 guy for years. Most people forget that Dwayne Solomon beat him in London.

I have no problem with it. Those are the rules. I think it's fair payback for someone winning a medal for Team USA. In theory, it also lets an athlete know they are going to worlds and not have to peak once for USAs and again for Worlds.

Every year, there are people who run because they have qualifying times, but know they have no realistic chance of making the team. Or have a qualifying time but they are injured and run anyway. This is no different. As long as you have qualified, you should run if you want.

Also, you cannot predict that Symmonds will not do as well or better as whoever you think he is bumping. Surprises do happen. Look at Christian Taylor in the 800 in 2008.

It also matters that for many athletes that their sponsor pays them something for running at nationals. I would not ask anyone to give up a payday by not running a race that they qualified for.

not a problem at all wrote:

Look at Christian Taylor in the 800 in 2008.

Christian Smith?

Tripple dipple wrote:

not a problem at all wrote:

Look at Christian Taylor in the 800 in 2008.

Christian Smith?

Yes. Although Christian Taylor making the team in the 800 would show impressive range. :)

Alysia Montano ran the 800 at 2014 USA's whilst 34 weeks pregnant if I recall correctly... She ran 2:34 and was dead last in her heat, obviously.

So what about her then? She also qualified to be there but seriously, should you run a national championship when you know you're not at all in shape?

Symmonds is different to that case though; he might still not be the slowest at nationals; maybe in shape to get like 15th place or something.

Rules are rules, and according to those both Symmonds now and Montana then have/had a right to be there. You have to wonder though when an athlete should politely decline their spot if they're clearly not in "qualifying-for-nationals"-shape. (e.g. in 1.47.50 shape for Symmonds).

Victor Alexander wrote:

You have to wonder though when an athlete should politely decline their spot if they're clearly not in "qualifying-for-nationals"-shape. (e.g. in 1.47.50 shape for Symmonds).

If you've been paying attention you would know that Nick is now 80% business man 20% athlete. He will be getting a decent amount of free pub for Run Gum just by showing up. NBC loves him , love the hype the fact they think he is the next Pre, and the Oregon "link" .

He is not running for a spot, He is running to show his Run Gum tattoo.

FWIW, the rule should be amended so that you also have to make a USA finals in the preceding 2 USA champs (Nick would qualify for that as well)

69Probs wrote:

It's a rule, yes, but he should know when to quit. He's out of shape but too stubborn to admit it. He is not only causing a big scene by insisting on competing at this meet, but also taking a spot of a hard working, poor younger runner who just wants to make the meet for some experience for the future. Well I'll tell you one thing, I respect you and your career, but I'm rooting against you on this one Nick Symmonds!

Symmonds is not insisting on competing in this meet or causing a scene, you are. Symmonds is entitled to compete at this meet by a USATF rule he had nothing to do with. Project much?

MidDLife wrote:

So does anyone else think it's complete crap that just because Nick Symmonds has a silver medal from Moscow in 2013 that there is a chance he automatically gets a spot at the US championships? He's super out of shape, proved that in Portland, and there's a bunch of guys on the men's 800m list who have run just off 1:47.5 who now won't get in because of him. I get it's his last season and he wants to participate in one last US championships, but he'd be taking the spot of a more deserving athlete which just doesn't seem fair at all. If I were him, I'd feel terrible. Earn the spot, don't ride a medal from 4 years ago.

He earned his spot with the medal. It is his right to compete. I understand your point, but it is completely ok for him to take a spot. It's in the rules.

Nobody brought this up when Montaño ran the 800 on the basis of women empowerment, which inevitably left another "more deserving athlete" at home.

To the victor belongs the spoils. If you win medals, you get extra perks. So sorry that some marginal qualifier doesn't get to run in one meet, that probably had no chance of getting on the team in the first place. The rule was set in place for a reason, although I didn't make the rules I'm guessing that they want to allow for the current/former stars to be at the Championship meet, and are willing to make accommodations to those not qualified due to extenuating circumstances (such as injuries in Nick's case). Look at Kiprotich for example, the guy f*cked up and forgot his race bib and couldn't run the first round of NCAA's, but the NCAA gave let him run anyways, and got 2nd in the nation.

how? wrote:

There are a bunch of guys who won't get in because of him? How does this work?

You see, when they let him in they have to make certain that there is enough room in the lanes. Normally they would double up in each lane in the prelims but with Nick you can't really do that because of his (ahem) wide caboose. So immediately they needed to eliminate two for Nick's lane. Then they had to make sure that the adjacent lanes were not packed in order to provide adequate passing room for that, ummm, width of his. Right now they are thinking that these lanes can have one runner each (thereby reducing the entire pool by a total of two more for these two lanes) but they are still thinking this through.

Anyway, at a minimum there will be four guys who will not get a chance to run because of Nick, possibly more.

I don't know why people are upset about this particular situation.

People can make it in based on last year's times or early season times and be in worse shape than Symmonds is at this moment.

And one race doesn't prove your fitness.

We know didn't have any good races going into USATF in the past and wound up winning.

He may still sharpen and get to the semis. He's a great competitor.

He's in based on the rules just like so many in the past have competed and not been in shape.

Seems like this is personal against Nick.

HardLoper wrote:

Symmonds is not insisting on competing in this meet or causing a scene, you are. Symmonds is entitled to compete at this meet by a USATF rule he had nothing to do with. Project much?

Wow, really cool post. I especially like the part where you ask, "project much?" That's so clever. So original. So profound.

You're clearly not a runninggeek or a very unintelligent geek, I guess those do exist.

Get it through your feeble brain, he is NOT displacing anyone..

They're taking 32 guys under 1:47.5.

But also taking him based on his qualifying criteria.. so 33 TOTAL.

The number 32 guy isn't gonna be knocked down to 33 and displaced, he will still be considered 32.

The 33rd ranked guy who is under 1:47.5 who wouldn't have been allowed to compete anyway, will still be 33rd and not allowed entry. Hopefully this sinks in. Read it a few times if it doesn't at first

Badabing wrote:

The whole point is he isn't taking someone's spot. He's just one extra competitor.

Perfect example of a distinction without a difference

Of course the irony is Nick has been fighting the USATF for years yet has to rely on their good graces to be allowed to run.

He's not relying on their good graces to run.

He's relying on their established rules.

Echo wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

If there's even 32 faster than him including faster non-qualifiers, he should stay home. But he wouldn't, he just has to be Nick MF Symmonds.

We heard you the first time.

obviously not, or you wouldn't think I said the same thing twice