Is Quenton Cassidy's milage in Once A Runner realistic for a miler?

At the time this book was written, some great milers like John Walker ran high mileage, 100+ mpw.

However, the book is a work of fiction.

Different strokes for different folks. Even though it worked for Cassidy, it may be way too much for you. Find what's right and work hard at it. There is no "a" in "definitely."

Ask peter snell

Agree. Search "Lydiard, A."

on this note has anyone ever done 60x400? And do you cool down after that one?

It's a straight Lydiard principle. Huge aerobic foundation off of which fitness can be gained, sharpened and utilized in racing.

The difference today is that many of the top athletes competing on the world scene, are in no rush to "make up" years of missed running/aerobic foundations -- they're all ready there. Many look at the workouts or running of El Guerrouj or Lagat and forget that they spent a lot of time running around and have been running for a long time before they started, as Renato puts it, "official training."

So, just don't do "too much, too soon". You'll be in amazing fitness if you can run the volume as he did.

hmmm wrote:

Even though it worked for Cassidy

i think we need to remember that he is a fictional character. nothing worked for him. it was a nice story. that's it. i wouldn't recommend 127 mpw for a miler. hell, half of that is probably sufficient for the vast majority of milers. the benefits of doing much over 80 mpw don't seem particularly compelling to me, especially when that time could be spent doing drills or strength training.

chuck,

why? Lots to be gained in strength, capilarization, mitochondria and myoglobin content...

Renato's 800m specialists will average in the 90s during their base phase. And back in 1997, El Guerrouj was doing as much as 200km/wk in his base phase.

Of course, this doesn't mean that by doing all the running that you have to exclude the other means of improvement (drills, strength work, etc.)

I can look at what people did (hell, I transcribed Steve Scott's log -- I know what top milers do day by day) but I have a problem saying "x amount of mileage is too much."

Another difference was back in the day, as Renato has said, distance runners usually didn't compete as seriously as they do now in the winter and/or early spring. They didn't have a world indoor championships in the 1970s and no one peaked for that. Milers would do a food road races here and there and an indoor mile or two, but the winter season wasn't as organized, competitive, and profitable as it is today.

So, back in the day, you'd see a little more variance in training from period to period. Periodization was a little more extreme.

Is 127 miles too much? Maybe, maybe not. But as trackhead said, I wouldn't ever say a particular number is too much for EVERYBODY, just say it is for you or a particular individual.

it's diminishing returns for me but i neither said it was unrealistic nor too much. very few milers will be able to handle it and the only ones i know who have done it with success are the sorts you mention. of course we can get into the chicken-egg argument about that, but the people who ask questions like this on this board are not scott or el g. we can get into a theoretical debate about this or we can give advice based on reality.

i agree with everything you say about the gains from high mileage; but the reality is that the person asking this question (and the other people on this board) don't need to do that sort of stuff. if they hit 80mpw in their base phase and see improvements, they'll end up with a coach who knows what they're doing and will take it from there. the well-intentioned advice i see given out on this board regarding what el g does or what renato's does with his guys doesn't seem particularly helpful to neophytes because they don't know what they're doing to begin with.

Diminishing returns are still returns.

Two names: Jim Ryun, Marty Liquori

bringer of news wrote:

Diminishing returns are still returns.

yeah, and the average letsrun poster with his average mile of 4:50 doesn't need to increase their mitochondrial capacity or number of capillaries in their legs: they need to simply get their ass out the door and increase to a moderately high amount of mileage (for them) during their base period. people on this board when giving advice seem to simply skip over the phase where people build to these elite mileage levels and simply say, like trackhead did, don't do too much, too soon. that means jack shit to the vast majority of people on this board. and the vast majority of people, if they knew, don't want to do the sort of stuff the elites do because they don't want to put in that sort of work right now and all you'll do is discourage them. you will maximize your "returns" by getting to a decent level of mileage (80 is generic); if you get there and are doing other things right, you'll either 1) be running such nice mile times that you've got a good coach who will take care of you better than letsrun can or 2) will know a hell of a lot more about running and choose to learn the rest of the story from a far better place than letsrun.

the legend of AL wrote:

Ask peter snell

Peter Snell ran 70-80mpw, only at the end of his career he ran 10 100-mile weeks.

webb average 60ish in hs, which was plenty. for a pure miler type runner like webb, i'd say 70 is perfect, but that's just me. sure u need a huge base, but training during the season, i think 70 is ideal for the average runner. nothing set in stone though, and i agree with track head, there is no set mileage or anything like that.

I just finished reading "The Miler"......Steve Scott's story. Although the book doesn't always go into great detail about exactly what his training was, he hit over 100 miles many times and consistently ran in the 80-90 range. Most of the mileage was done at 6 minute or below for most of his career, until he began some HR monitor lactacte threshold training as he got older.

a guy like steve magness read the book in HS, believed it as non-fiction, and look where it got him.

and look where all that running got Ovett, El Guerrouj, Scott....