I'm solidly middle class. My life doesn't appear to have changed in any material way when Presidents come and go.

oh brother wrote:

I love this one...people say this all the time.

But, have you imagined what you might be paying without Obamacare?

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/02/slower-premium-growth-under-obama/

Hasn't been the case for me. Young, single, self employed and paying almost $500/month for health insurance premiums. What liberals also leave out, is not just the cost of premiums, but how coverage has changed. Starting this year, not only is my deductible $5500, my out of pocket has skyrocketed to 18K/year. While well care is covered, if I were admitted to the hospital, my insurance will only cover 50% of the cost. That is just one example of how poor the coverage. The 50% applies to xrays, labs, etc. and 2 of my 4 prescriptions aren't covered at all.

Between paying for my prescriptions and premiums, I fork out $900/month and that is without any medical visits at all.

Can you define solidly middle class? What's your income?

You nailed it. It IS different for reasons you stated. And for the fact that Right Wing talk radio and Right Winger internet hate areas (uh, fake news anyone), has increased the hate level a thousand percent. Live and let live no longer, indeed.

[quote]johnny dangerously wrote:It was too much regulation that over-inflated the housing market. /quote]

This is crazy talk. Not kidding.

Only difference between Bush and Obama was my house tripled in value as did my stocks. That and gas went from $5 a gallon to $2.20. Other than that same old same old.

I am a senior executive at an insurance company that you have heard of (think top 3). Not that I should have to explain my credentials but maybe it will lend my statement of fact more weight.

The idea that Obamacare has increased premiums for working Americans is complete and utter hogwash. It is one of the biggest myths in our society that has been allowed to perpetuate for whatever reason. Premium increases have actually been significantly curbed, so much so in fact, that large insurers like myself can't make our margins work with the poor risk pools we are seeing in the individual market.

The movement towards high deductible "consumer" centric health plans was happening long before and will continue long after Obamacare. Why? Because America has a messed up healthcare system that pays hospital administrators millions of dollars to perform a basic administrative job and we are horribly unhealthy.

Say what you want about Obamacare and Obamacare himself but absolutely don't make false claims completely devoid of fact to further some visceral dislike for something you don't understand. Your "experience" is not s product of Obamacare, it is a product of a trend that has been going on for decades and is at an inflection point which our healthcare system will not survive with meaningful reform.

Diet soda will kill me wrote:

the long view wrote:

There are a few immediate impacts a president has. For example whether we go to war or not (although maybe the wars in the middle east have not affected you personally, somehow).

But a lot of the differences probably show up years later. For example Supreme Court nominations from long ago affect whether your gay friends have the right to get married or not (although maybe you don't have any openly gay friends).

Deregulation of past allowed the 2008 housing and financial crises to occur, which probably affected you somehow. Some of that deregulation can be traced to presidential leadership, for example Reagan's appointment of Alan Greenspan or repeal of Glass-Steagall on Clinton's watch.

There are probably better examples but that's what came to mind.

Great perspective. Thanks.

Post of the thread.

Although I have said that I will do better under Trump's tax proposals even though I didn't vote for him, I have to say at the end of the Bush administration I was very scared about my investments crashing. Things looked horrible during his last few months.

living well wrote:

Diet soda will kill me wrote:

Great perspective. Thanks.

Post of the thread.

Although I have said that I will do better under Trump's tax proposals even though I didn't vote for him, I have to say at the end of the Bush administration I was very scared about my investments crashing. Things looked horrible during his last few months.

Well get ready to start winning so much with Trump that you'll be begging him to let us lose because you want to remember what it felt like! He won't let us lose because all the man knows how to do is win. Let's get our history straight shall we?....

There was HUGE economic growth during the Bush II years due to the well throughout GOP strategy of slashing revenue (I.e. huge tax cuts) while simultaneously massively increasing spending (recall the GOP controlled the WhiteHouse and both houses of congress for 6 of the 8 Bush years). My income and investments SKYROCKETED during this period which makes total sense right? I mean when you want to grow personal wealth the best thing to do is to decrease your income and spend more than you make. Total economic logic from the GOP. Lesson: GOP good, Dems bad.

Then, Barrack HUSSEIN Obama gets elected and the Dems take control of both houses of congress (this latter fact only occurred for 2 years...thank Gawd) and the economy crashes instantly! This was clearly Obama and the Dems fault, there can be no other conclusion based on facts and logic, Lesson: Dems bad, GOP good.

For the last eight years the economy has been in shambles which is totally OBUMMERS fault. I mean the GOP has controlled both houses of congress for 6 of the last 8 years but any unbiased thinking person knows that this is clearly the current POTUSs fault. While my income more than doubled in the last 8 years that silver lining must be attributed to the GOP congress not Barry. Lesson: Dems bad, GOP good.

Then Trump gets elected and the GOP retains both houses of congress and, instantaneously, my investments take off again! Clearly this is due to the sheer strength and power of Trump who will reinstate the brilliant economic policies of slashing the $$$ coming into the government (cutting taxes) while simultaneously increasing spending or at least not doing anything to decrease it (you know shifting spending while not actually reducing it). Given that correlation = causation (FACT) I clearly expect to make 10-20 times (hyperinflation) more under trump than I did under Barry. #MAGA #grabebythepu$$y

we tryna talk about Hannah Arendt in here?

Diet soda will kill me wrote:

I'm solidly middle class. My life doesn't appear to have changed in any material way when Presidents come and go.

How did you get "solidly middle class" while being so dumb. (I know, your parents were middle class.) You need to learn some simple concepts. Honestly, have you ever read a newspaper, let alone a book?

Let's say that unemployment goes up 2%. Does that change the lives of MOST middle-class people? No. Most boring middle-aged runners like yourself will keep on running Turkey Trots, buying running gear, traveling to run a slow marathon once a year, and posting inane comments online.

It's not as if a recession makes things worse for everyone across the board, all at once, equally. Many will be just fine. THIS IS OBVIOUS.

But at the same time that you are blithely singing "ho-hum, life is still good," MILLIONS will lose their jobs in that recession. You may not know them or be aware of them, since they make up a small minority and you are clearly very poorly informed. But for the SMALL FRACTION that are affected in this way, the recession is CATASTROPHIC.

Maybe you work in government and private sector job loss doesn't touch you. Maybe you work in business and government lay-offs don't affect you. But sooner or later, it might. And dumb old you will be surprised? That makes me laugh.

Also, you are middle-aged with no kids? LOL.

Diet soda will kill me wrote:

Anyone else feel this way? (White, married, middle age, no kids.)

where do you live?

THANK YOU

The idea that the sub-prime mortgage crisis occurred *only* because of a lack of regulation is wrong. Some blame certainly belongs there, but some blame also belongs on borrowers who bought homes with no money down believing it is their right to own a nice house. You're spot on, too, regarding CDOs and CDSs accelerating the crisis.

...

Now back to my normal LetsRun.com posts like "Molly Huddle **Swoons**" and "Emma Coburn Appreciation Thread **Swoons**"

All, great responses. I'm enjoying your posts.

Diet soda will kill me wrote:

Anyone else feel this way? (White, married, middle age, no kids.)

I also think this way at times but you really can't know what would be different in your life if there was a different president. There are, for example, people who now have health insurance because Obama is president that wouldn't likely have it if he hadn't been. If you're a public school teacher and Trump kills the Common Core stuff your life could change. If you're a retiree or about to become one and he privatizes Social Security and Medicare your life will likely change. If you have a job that does contract work with the Federal Government presidents can affect you. Consider Obama's requirement that companies doing that sort of work need to pay workers a $10 per hour minimum wage. And many people have lost kids, spouses, friends, or had them crippled because of Bush's and Obama's Middle East Wars. My life may have been different if Nixon hadn't ended the draft. But like you, since then I can't really see that presidents have affected my family or me.

I agree that blaming it on deregulation is too simple an explanation, but I disagree that CRA played a large role in the crisis. From what I've read, very few of those actually went under (I'm willing to stand corrected on this, as the investigations vary). Risky lending in general seemed to play a role.

I think you're right. The only thing that would be noticeable with changing presidents / congresses is changing tax rates, but you can't actually be taxed down to zero dollars, so even that could be pretty minor. The only issue might arise is if you over-extend your money when rates are low and then you get hurt when they go up, but most people are pretty reasonable with their money, despite what people say in the comments sections of major news websites. I didn't vote for Trump, but unless he actually starts a war that causes deaths on American soil, the middle class will carry on as we do.

If you're poor, your life sure as hell changes. I know a guy who would very likely have died without Obamacare, because he has an expensive but totally treatable condition. Same too if you're in a group that hasn't had all the rights that the middle class / whites / straight people do.

Knowing my personal life isn't much effected by who is in office, I try to vote for who will help the people whose lives are effected. Others choose to vote for whoever will give them, personally, a tax break. I don't say anything bad about people who think that way, it's just a difference of opinion.

I'm 28, so most (all?) of my adult life has been Obama-administration.

I buy my health insurance through an exchange, so the ACA has had an impact on my life. My (very cheap, catastrophic coverage) premiums are going up a lot next year. Not super happy about that.

not really wrote:Hasn't been the case for me. Young, single, self employed and paying almost $500/month for health insurance premiums. What liberals also leave out, is not just the cost of premiums, but how coverage has changed. Starting this year, not only is my deductible $5500, my out of pocket has skyrocketed to 18K/year. While well care is covered, if I were admitted to the hospital, my insurance will only cover 50% of the cost. That is just one example of how poor the coverage. The 50% applies to xrays, labs, etc. and 2 of my 4 prescriptions aren't covered at all.

Between paying for my prescriptions and premiums, I fork out $900/month and that is without any medical visits at all.

Hold on. you are USING lots of health care 400/mo in prescriptions means you have some chronic condition yet carefully portraying yourself as "healthy."

What you really are is a high-demand user looking for a free lunch.

I thought you conservatives hated welfare?

Middle class incomes have stagnated since ~2000. Meanwhile inflation has still been happening, especially in housing and healthcare which are most people's largest expenses already.

The President is a ultimately the guy who signs bills or doesn't. Congress is who makes the bills. The President may suggest an agenda and get his party leaders to implement it, but ultimately Congress make the rules. Often, the President and Congress have been of different parties and this is a good thing because the power is balanced. When one party is in control, they steamroll an agenda, though there are always compromises because there is still another party involved in the process.

Obamacare was steamrolled, but was also massively compromised. The idea of healthcare for everyone is there (whether people like that idea or not), but the implementation caused issues.

But dig a bit deeper and realize that up until the 1990s, most companies had health care plans and retirement plans of some sort (especially bigger companies). These plans were cut down in cost savings, so employees were left with 401k plans for retirement, but not enough income to fund them properly. They were left with weaker or no healthcare plans. Meanwhile incomes did not increase to compensate for the extra financial burden. So many went without healthcare. Then when they need medical help, they go to the emergency room and don't pay. Guess who pays... Everybody else who has insurance because the emergency room just bills more to those with healthcare. Hence healthcare premiums go up. So we ALREADY have socialized medicine. Obamacare is an attempt to get things on level ground where everyone is in the healthcare system and contributing.

Just wait until we reach a time where a large percent of the retired population has to try to live on what they saved in their 401k. The WILL NOT have enough so survive. And then repeal Obamacare and don't give a reasonable alternative so retirees have no healthcare in their prime years of needing it.

The financial crisis: Low interest rates are the primary reason for the financial crisis. It is rarely cited. Low rates allowed higher home prices. They caused investors to seek riskier and riskier investments just to stay ahead of inflation. This led Credit Default Swaps, investing in shady real estate, etc. Shady real estate investing took 2 forms: banks lending to unqualified individuals and banks selling loan groups as AAA investments when they were not. Investors believed this rating so large entities (cities, countries, large companies, etc) bought these investments as their backbone investment, sometimes as their employee retirement plan. So whammy, they lose big and so do their employees.

Credit Default Swaps are the equivalent of insurance on a shaky investment. But they insured multiple investments and sometimes multiple times. Then when things started going bad, it was better to burn the investments to the ground and get the insurance payout. So the incentive for them was to worsen the financial crisis. Then the government bailed them out.

It's a mad, mad world.

Yes, the middle class is worse off than 30 years ago. Yes, the rich are orders of magnitude richer. Yes, the government will bail out the rich, but the middle class are responsible for themselves. Yes, the government will provide a subsistence living for the poor because if they did not, there would be an overthrow of the government and they can't have that.