Bernard Lagat says his 3:47 mile PR is "pathetically slow"

Asbel says ... wrote:

Noble Kane wrote:

It's not a coincidence that the 3 fastest 1500/ miler guys all competed and ran their fastest times, significantly faster than all others, in a narrow 4 year period when EPO use was rampant.

... HUH?

When they set them there was only 1 other guy within 2 secs of them, Moceli, who himself was a product of the early EPO period when there was absolutely no test for it at all.

And you still think Kiprop hasn't been doping after this year's Rosa arrest, clear Kenyan corruption from officials running the sport there, his failure to win anything since his agent's arrest in July, and his return to 3:29 - 3:31 times?

He's as dirty as the likes of El G, Ngeny , Komen, Lagat et al.

Kiprop has never had to put up with the testing scrutiny of his peers outside Africa. We have proof that officials are bribed to reveal the arrival of testers 48 hours or so before. Same with Amos. These are the IAAF testers. They haven't had, until this year, testers from their own national federation, on account of being such a poor country. Haha.

LetsRun.com wrote:

The OP is referring the our QOD for today which comes from this article.

https://spikes.iaaf.org/post/bernard-lagats-career-highlights

“If I had one opportunity to go back, I would have run with Hicham El Guerrouj in the mile when he was breaking the world record [3:43.13] or when he was running 3:45, 3:44s. I would have loved to have been there. When he broke that world record with Noah Ngeny running the second fastest time ever, I said ‘nah, I’m not gonna run this weekend, I’m gonna chill’ only to remain in pain for a long time – including now. My personal best would not be 3:47, it is pathetically slow. That is the only regret I have.”

That 3:43 mile was in July 1999.

Lagat lowered his 1500 PR to 3:30.5 one month after that race.

I doubt that Lagat would have hung with them if he were in the race. I don't think he would have broken 3:47 that day.

His 3:26 PR came three years later in 2001.

Lagat surely would have run at least 3:45 in his prime in the right conditions.

Probably 3:44 since he always finished close to El G in fast races.

Oh, you meant no ran close to their times at that time. Fair enough.

Interesting though, that EPO "was rampant" and nobody came even within whisker of el G and Noah at the time, isn't it? All these great athletes, doped to the eyeballs, and nobody was even close to those two. Why do you think Noah and El G had the secret sauce that nobody else knew about?

is this a joke ???

hicham was paced all the way to ~ 1050, so bernie only got 250m more pacing !

bernie hit bell in 2'32.9 in race with no clock error

his last 400 was

53.4+ !!!

he wouda gone 3'25-high / 3'26-flat at even-pace that day

get a clue

he was 3'25-high / 3'26-flat shape that day

same as finnish newspaper of '80s

"transfusions not working !!!"

albeit latter no likely better than 3'33 without them

quantum difference in talents

is this a joke ???

no test for transfusions even to this day !!!

the best they have is is laughable arbitrary 50-haematocrit which is a joke !!!

what if athlete is in early/middle stages of polycythaemia rubra vera & his haemotocrit has pushed to 50 ???

laughable WADA bans them for developing cancer !!???

'70s / '80s were joke days for drugs

limitless transfusions whenever wanted

utter joke !!!

Asbel ran 3'26.6

Silas ran 3'27.6 year before with

53.5 !!!

even more remarkable is that 800 he was well outside 1'52, at worst 1'52.25, more like 1'52.5 !!!

he was running 3'30.5 - 3'31.0 pace to 800 & whipped it down to 3'27.6 !!!

his last 700 was ~

95.1 - 95.3 !!!

that is pace of

3'23.8 - 3'24.3 !!!

or more comprehensible is that he averaged the last 700 at :

54-low !!!

which is unmatched in < 3'30 runs !!!

if Silas, had got race targeted for him, small field & no Asbel / Souly & told no tactical race to run, but flat-out TT at even-pace from gun not crap 1'52-low / mid at 800, he wouda run

~ 3'25 - low/mid !!!

On August 6, 2004, Lagat beat El G in 3:27.40 to 3:27.64 at Zurich, just before the Olympics.

these threads are vitally important as it requires re-exam of previous runs which likely hadn't been examined properly

we therefore improve assessments

i knew Silas had fast last lap in his 3'27.6, so worth well into dipping into 3'26s off that & left it at that

however, i didn't look at how crap he was at 800 split !!!

utterly rubbish clocking at 800 split !!!

he also threw away time in that slow 800 which can't be easily calculated

it requires full assessment & new potential

from it, i'd offer my all-time 1500 list, run on same-'70s synthetic i ever got chance to run on, with only this caveat :

1-man race with even-pace wabbit to bell on 0 wind, 70F day

Ryun - 3'24-flat / low

Silas - 3'25-flat / low

hicham - 3'25-low

Noah - 3'25-low

Asbel - 3'25-mid

Bernie - 3'25-mid/high

Morceli - 3'26-low/mid

calculo wrote:

these threads are vitally important as it requires re-exam of previous runs which likely hadn't been examined properly

we therefore improve assessments

i knew Silas had fast last lap in his 3'27.6, so worth well into dipping into 3'26s off that & left it at that

however, i didn't look at how crap he was at 800 split !!!

utterly rubbish clocking at 800 split !!!

he also threw away time in that slow 800 which can't be easily calculated

it requires full assessment & new potential

from it, i'd offer my all-time 1500 list, run on same-'70s synthetic i ever got chance to run on, with only this caveat :

1-man race with even-pace wabbit to bell on 0 wind, 70F day

Ryun - 3'24-flat / low

Silas - 3'25-flat / low

hicham - 3'25-low

Noah - 3'25-low

Asbel - 3'25-mid

Bernie - 3'25-mid/high

Morceli - 3'26-low/mid

Calculo, it's the same old nonsense I have heard from the American running community all my life. When Walker ran 3:49 "oh Jim Ryun he could've done 3:48," when Ovett ran 3:31 in 1980, "oh Ryun could've done 3:30." When Coe went 3:47,"Ryun he could've gone 3:46." When Cram went 3:29 "Ryun could've gone 3:28." El G goes 3:26 with Noah Ngeny as his pacemaker through 1100m, now Ryun could go 3:24.0. Really! Whilst I suspect Ryun was cleaner then El G, El G had way better form and economy. There is no way he would come close to a guy who could also run 7:23 for 3k and 12:50 for 5k.

So what is the basis for saying Ryun could have gone faster:

1) 'the first 300m was quite slow and there was no pacemaker like nowadays.'

This is true but Kip Keino took up the pace after 400m and really turned it on during laps 2-4 and was as good as a modern pacemaker as they seldom help out on the last lap (with the exception of Noah Ngeny in 1998) or the third lap for that matter.

2) 'The track was terrible.' A quick look at the video shows that the track was pretty good. It actually looks like a modern synthetic track to me. While the track in Monaco might be quicker, many forget that Ryun before this race trained at high altitude in nearby states and quickly returned to sea level for the race. If he was to this today he would then have fly to Europe and thus suffer from jet lag, unless he trained at Font Romeu or St. Moritz but there is no guarantee as to the outcome when away from your native surroundings.

Over the years there were a few races/runners who were robbed of better times:

-Walker in 1975 ran 3:32.4 (just missing Bayi's 3:32.2 WR) the pacemaker was hopeless, dropping out after 400m and the winds were ghastly, gusting very strongly in an unsheltered stadium. Worth 3:30/31 by modern standards, perhaps Walker's best performance.

-Coe's 1979 WR of 3:48.95 was really 3:47, something happen to the timer that day??? Just a disgrace.

-Aouita 1985-87, and Coe had some near misses chasing the 1500m WR.

-Ali Saidi Sief in 2000 ran 3:30 in the cold pouring rain and strong winds of Gateshead. This is certainly 3:27 in good conditions like Monaco, Rieti or Barcelona. The guy was totally dodgy though.

jjjjjj wrote:

On August 6, 2004, Lagat beat El G in 3:27.40 to 3:27.64 at Zurich, just before the Olympics.

Which was 5 years after the mile world record race.

If Lagat was in that 1999 race he would not likely have run faster than 3:47.

The Bakersfield track was a tartan synthetic track in 1967 and Jim Ryun ran 3:51. Jim Ryun never ran as fast on tartan tracks as he did on cinders. Kip Keino did 3:34. Many forget that Ron Clarke actually set his 5k WR of 13:16 on a synthetic track, whereas Kip Keino's 13:24 in 1965 was on Western Springs Speedway, a dirt motorbike racing track. This would probably have been the WR until Rono's 1978 WR.

Ryun ran 3:33.1 not 3:24. I don't think any human can run anywhere 3:24 for 1500m without massive amounts of EPO.

Komen had numerous chances of running faster then 3:29. He didn't. He lacked the speed over 800m to run any faster over 1500m.

Go and have a look at Coe's mile WR again, he was just about to cross the line when the camera cuts away. I did a digital timing on this and got 3:47 which includes adding about 1s.

Walker's 3:49.4 was a 1.6s WR. His 3:32.4 was at least 3:30 in good conditions, maybe better. The 1974 Commonwealth games 1500m had perfect conditions that day. Walker also ran in the 800m and actually beat Bayi, he was just as jaded there was several days between finals. Bayi was a front runner but had pacemakers on numerous occasions running slower, just like Bekele's 12:37. He was still good but not 3:28, he was sick with malaria for years after his 3:32.

I do think that the spikes and clothing of today could improve the times of athletes from yesteryear.

Dead Nike Lunar Forever 2s wrote:

The Bakersfield track was a tartan synthetic track in 1967 and Jim Ryun ran 3:51. .

You're an idiot. All of Ryun's world records at mile or 1500 were om cinders.

Tired of Tires wrote:

Dead Nike Lunar Forever 2s wrote:

The Bakersfield track was a tartan synthetic track in 1967 and Jim Ryun ran 3:51. .

You're an idiot. All of Ryun's world records at mile or 1500 were om cinders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlwS0Fyq8vk

Well that record does look like cinders, old footage though, the 3:33.1 was a better performance and as I said before, the track in LA looked pretty good to me (there is currently no track for 150 miles were I live). The main question is if Ryun is capable of 3.24, if he had access to tartan tracks during his career, then why were all his fastest times one the US west coast? The question is if calculo thinks Ryun was capable of 3:24, then what is Kip Keino's solo 3:34.5 worth at sea level with pacemakers where he beat Ryun by over 3s on a tartan track?

Seyta wrote:

UtterDevastationLagat wrote:

Bernard Lagat in his interview refers to his 3:47 mile PR as pathetically slow!

Most people would give their left nut to run 3:47. What a prick move

His 1500m PR is 3:26. His statement is accurate when, relatively speaking, he is referring to himself.

Exactly. Unclear as to why so many posters do not understand this

wrong

it seems you have no idea of the fact he was finished by '68 by mono

it didn't have diagnosis back then but now called

"chronic fatigue syndrome"

it finished ancic, the only guy to beat fed at wimbo before fed's big run there

ancic was probably worth 2 or 3 wimbo's & same number of US Opens + coupla oz titles

it finished soderling, the only man to beat nadal in his prime in paris

he absolutely hammered nadal that day, blasting nadal's top-spin forehand past him like playing a junior

nadal was perplexed

soderling shouda won coupla paris titles if not for

CFS

no

he has said if he got synthetic track to run on he wouda run 13-flat / 27-flat

Keino definitely capable of 13-flat on synthetic either in legendary 7'39WR or perhaps his 13'24

3'24-low shape in '67 on '70s synthetic

wrong

it woud need a 6'2+ guy with huge engine

the huger stride makes the difference

likes of hicham/noah/silas/morceli/keino are ~ 5'9, too short, but were good for

3'25-low - 3'26-high

learn to watch analyse vid

he ran 3'46.3 in criminally large field off outrageous start !!!

baulked twice at start !!!

turned straight right into lane 3 !!!

ran suicidal sprint to catch leaders !!!

& finished with ~ 54.4 !!!

ideal run that day, route-1 from gun with drafting to bell, he wouda run

~ 3'43+

is this a joke ???

hicham ran 3'26.00 off 1'47+pb !!!

elite 1500 guys 800 ability is usually nonsense

Komen that day was ~ 1'44-mid

eh ?

so ??

it is 3'47.33

is this a joke ??

it was 3'47.33 on known top level track & meet

off rubbish 800 split

he ran for 2nd 440y a rubbish 59.3 !!

i don't know if he had any drafting on 3rd lap

he shouda run at worst that day, if smoothly drafted to bell

3'47-mid - 3'48-low

depending on whether or not he got drafting on 3rd lap

he certainly wasn't drafted to bell, so the tendency to 3'47-mid is predominate

that indicates

~ 3'30-low

shape in mile WR

i did see you claim something ridiculous about 25+ opener

do you have any more info ?

i have seen some splits of very very fast at 800 of ~ 1'52

can you expand on poor conditions in oslo that day ?

no

far too windy a meet

800 windy, tayler, winner of 10k in 27-high said it was too windy

waker ran like a wimp in the 800

Bayi tried for glory trying to match the great Kipkurgat, who if not for then fastest ever semi of 1'44.38, which he said was "too fast & cost WR", if rested, on 0 wind day in zurich was worth

~ 1'41-high

walker just passed a broken Bayi at line by only 0.2s

no

Bayi made epic attempt to win against guy in incredible shape !!!

walker just niped past his broken body at finish

never ever close to his incredible christchurch shape, where even with fatigue of those prelims, including rounds for 800, epic attempt at 800 gold, rounds of 1500, he was worth, even ignoring wind, a zurich-shape off 0 wind, smooth drafting to bell at even-pace of

3'28-high

you can easily take that down to :

accounting for few 800s including epic final run + 1500 prelims + 0 wind

~ 3'28-flat

no

he wouda never broken 3'30 on his 12'37 shape

he wouda have to have turned fully to 1500 training to break 3'30

he never said he had malaria ever

i'd be interested in your account of walker's 3'32+ in oslo in '75

he said he was in

"3'30 shape in montreal"

which i 100% agree, but weather/splits of '75 oslo woud decide if he was more like 3'29+...

UtterDevastationLagat wrote:

Bernard Lagat in his interview refers to his 3:47 mile PR as pathetically slow!

Most people would give their left nut to run 3:47. What a prick move

It's slow compared to his 3:26 so what does that make you.

All of these guys are looking doped with Asbel's Kiprop recent EPO positive tests.....plus, the fact that both El G & Lagat had pretty slow official 800m PRs.

Seyta wrote:

UtterDevastationLagat wrote:

Bernard Lagat in his interview refers to his 3:47 mile PR as pathetically slow!

Most people would give their left nut to run 3:47. What a prick move

His 1500m PR is 3:26. His statement is accurate when, relatively speaking, he is referring to himself.

Exactly, it's clear that he means it's pathetically slow (for himself given HIS potential).