Dibaba dirty but Ayana clean?

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Hellelujah wrote:

Dibaba was 14:37 three years ago. Good but won't make any headlines in Ethiopia. Then she switches events and drops a massive 3:55i solo effort the following Winter.

Ayana was 9:22 in 2010, then was going backwards, until she "discovered" the 5000, then all of a sudden is scaring the WR every time out.

All of this reeks of going only so far naturally, then pulling the "pharmaceutical option". Bolt did the same thing, "discovering" his mysteriously hidden 100m ability in 2008.

In 2013 Ayana ran 14:25 everyone's just seen her the last two years not even now, so shes "only" improved 13 seconds now in two years; she's only 24 not even in her prime, 2010 she was 18 doing the steeple. So apparently people don't get better with age as they get torwards their prime? Even if she is doping that argument proves nothing.

bladerunner wrote:

The logical American wrote:

Right. After all, we take drugs, so they must be dirty.

Are you saying American distance runners are taking drugs? If so, would you include Jenny Simpson and Emma Coburn in that accusation?

Yes, of course, 99.9% of all Americans take drugs, including Simpson and Coburn, because they are Americans. Therefore all those faster runners from other countries must be dirty, and they need to be banned.

800m :1)David Rudisha

2)Wilson Kipketer

3)Sebastian Coe

4)Nijel Amos

5) Joaquim Cruz

6)Abubaker Kaki Khamis

7)Sammy Koskei

8)Wilfred Bungei

9)Mohammed Aman

10)Yuriy Borzakovskiy

11)Amel Tuka

12)Timothy Kitum

13)Pierre-Ambroise Bosse

1500m all time: 1)Hicham El Guerrouj

2)Bernard Lagat

3)Asbel Kiprop

4)Noureddine Morceli

5)Silas Kiplagat

6)Noah Ngeny

7)Taoufik Makhloufi

8)Abdelati Iguider

9)Mohamed Farah

10)Ronald Kwemoi

11)Fermin Cacho

Not to argue the point that "white athletes" aren't capable of athletic greatness but I do think it's important to point out the validity of these statements. The 800 actually has non-Africans in the top ten all time (2 with Coe and Cruz, I wasn't sure if Borzakovskiy had had his times wiped from the record books, Tuka had a suspicious rise to greatness last year and then they are followed by Kitum, a Kenyan and Bosse, a Frenchman).

The 1500m has no non African athletes. While doping and talent are two things to be brough into conversation, non-Africans clearly aren't in the mix of the history books.

why would someone from western europe kill himself early by taking a lot of drugs, when he can have a good live without it. in africa dying early is still better than living miserably all your life

Hellelujah wrote:

Dibaba was 14:37 three years ago. Good but won't make any headlines in Ethiopia. Then she switches events and drops a massive 3:55i solo effort the following Winter.

Ayana was 9:22 in 2010, then was going backwards, until she "discovered" the 5000, then all of a sudden is scaring the WR every time out.

All of this reeks of going only so far naturally, then pulling the "pharmaceutical option". Bolt did the same thing, "discovering" his mysteriously hidden 100m ability in 2008.

Not completely accurate about Dibaba. She was World Indoor Champ in 2012 over 1500, following running at the WC in Daegu in the 5000m. She ran 3:57 in 2012 outdoors and also 4:04i in 2010 (that's world class in itself). She switched to the 1500 over a year before her 3:55i. However, she did go from 4:05 in 2011 to 3:57 the next year. She did have a relatively bad 2014 though, outdoors.

The statements the first poster made were valid. Firstly, you are generalising Africans as all one race, which is incorrect. The Moroccans and Algerians from that list, although slightly darker skinned due to the climate, are caucasian, as well as the 11th placed runner whom is Spanish and Caucasian. For the 800, removing Kaki, Tuka and Borzakovskiy from the list given the evidence against them still leaves 3 white athletes in the top 10. It is also worth noting the 3rd and 4th fastest 400m runners ever are also caucasian. I do believe caucasians are just as capable as black runners at middle distance, with the main reason black athletes currently dominate simply being there are so many more that are motivated to train.

[quote]Say No To EPO wrote:

"I wasn't sure if Borzakovskiy had had his times wiped from the record books"

Never officially failed a drug test, therefore all of his records and times still exist. He's legit until proven guilty.

What evidence is there against Tuka? I must have missed something recently.

Metric Miler wrote:

What evidence is there against Tuka? I must have missed something recently.

Perhaps a bit unfairn to compare Tuka to Kaki and Yuriy, but I find it very unlikely he is clean. The main piece of evidence is that he went from a 1.46 nobody to the fastest 800m runner in the world in the space of a year. You simply can't progress like that.

Not much but some wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

What evidence is there against Tuka? I must have missed something recently.

Perhaps a bit unfairn to compare Tuka to Kaki and Yuriy, but I find it very unlikely he is clean. The main piece of evidence is that he went from a 1.46 nobody to the fastest 800m runner in the world in the space of a year. You simply can't progress like that.

I see. Well in Tula's defence he ran 1:46 2 years before his 1:42, and his progression is very similar to Berian. Most seem to think Berian is clean.

Metric Miler wrote:

Not much but some wrote:

Perhaps a bit unfairn to compare Tuka to Kaki and Yuriy, but I find it very unlikely he is clean. The main piece of evidence is that he went from a 1.46 nobody to the fastest 800m runner in the world in the space of a year. You simply can't progress like that.

I see. Well in Tula's defence he ran 1:46 2 years before his 1:42, and his progression is very similar to Berian. Most seem to think Berian is clean.

Fellow europeans Bosse and Kszczot have also made it clear they don't trust him. Chances are they know more than we do

Not much but some wrote:

Metric Miler wrote:

I see. Well in Tula's defence he ran 1:46 2 years before his 1:42, and his progression is very similar to Berian. Most seem to think Berian is clean.

Fellow europeans Bosse and Kszczot have also made it clear they don't trust him. Chances are they know more than we do

Well they certainly aren't going to appreciate his rapid improvement. They are rivals! Before Tuka popped up they were sure to get gold and silver at the Euros.

Anyway I do believe his improvement to be a little suspicious. There is certainly more to the story anyway, much like Berian. Whether that is a clean story or not, I don't know.

Picking Tuka out of that list as dirty based on his performance is quite hilarious though. All those men have done unbelievable things.