Haile G tells LetsRun.com how he'd beat Mo Farah - "I'd finish him early"

Farah has not run 12:42. He is past his prime. It will never happen except in Fantasyland.

Geb run sub 12:40. He actually ran it in reality.

Do you understand the difference between reality and fantasyland?

LM wrote:

If he went out, got pushed, and closed well to run in the lower 12:4x range I think we would look at him in a totally different light. He wouldn't automatically be GOAT track, but he would go from on the fringes of being in the picture to a serious candidate in the discussion.

See I think it is sad that you can't appreciate a runner is one of the best we've ever seen, certainly when it comes to winning, unless they have run a time you consider fast enough. This kind of statistics importance isn't found in other (more popular) sports.

Like I said, athletics is more than just personal bests. If someone truly thinks that for example Bekele is definitely better than Geb because he has 2 seconds on him over 5000m on paper, then you are deluded.

In Capable wrote:

Farah has not run 12:42. He is past his prime. It will never happen except in Fantasyland.

Geb run sub 12:40. He actually ran it in reality.

Do you understand the difference between reality and fantasyland?

I'm not sure it is worth replying to such a clearly idiotic statement but here goes.

Before Geb ran 12:39 was it 'fantasyland' for him too? Or maybe it was fantasy for Geb to break the 5000m WR in 1995 with a 12:44 when he had only managed 12:56 so far and the WR was 12:55?

Or is it only fantasy for Farah to run a personal best, because you don't like him perhaps? The only fantasy here is to claim Farah cant run faster than 12:53 which he ran before becoming a multiple World and Olympic 5000m and 10000m champion, and beating sub 12:50 guys with ease.

Renato Canova wrote:

Don't think the real value of Mo is 12'53". He ran already 12'57" in 2010, when we worked together for some month in Iten, in Zurich, and now is very much stronger, after going to Salazar. To think can run near 12'40" is something reasonable, such as the possibility of running under 26'30" in 10000m.

Metric Miler wrote:

See I think it is sad that you can't appreciate a runner is one of the best we've ever seen, certainly when it comes to winning, unless they have run a time you consider fast enough. This kind of statistics importance isn't found in other (more popular) sports.

Like I said, athletics is more than just personal bests. If someone truly thinks that for example Bekele is definitely better than Geb because he has 2 seconds on him over 5000m on paper, then you are deluded.

It's mind boggling to me how many LRC'ers focus so much on time, especially those obtained during the EPO era. All that matters over the ages are wins. If Mo gets a gold next year it's debatable, (considering the previous post about the difficulty of gaining a WC/Olympic birth), if he gets two he's the GOAT without question. Just win baby!

Sorry, Mo @ 4 Golds

Hmmm, truncated post.

Sorry, Mo @ 4 Oly Golds IS LESS THAN Hannes Kolehmainen 4 Oly Golds + 1 Oly Silver (5k, 10k, Marathon, XC)

Metric Miler wrote:

LM wrote:

If he went out, got pushed, and closed well to run in the lower 12:4x range I think we would look at him in a totally different light. He wouldn't automatically be GOAT track, but he would go from on the fringes of being in the picture to a serious candidate in the discussion.

See I think it is sad that you can't appreciate a runner is one of the best we've ever seen, certainly when it comes to winning, unless they have run a time you consider fast enough. This kind of statistics importance isn't found in other (more popular) sports.

Like I said, athletics is more than just personal bests. If someone truly thinks that for example Bekele is definitely better than Geb because he has 2 seconds on him over 5000m on paper, then you are deluded.

Bekele better than Geb because of 2 seconds? No, definitely not.

When it comes to Farah, the key here is that we are talking potentially 10+ seconds. The GOAT, in my book, should be favored against any other runner in history. If Farah , at best, can run 12:50 I cannot see him favored against Bekele or Geb in a head to head MU. Probably not El G. either at 5k. Moreover, it's not that Farah hasn't run a time I consider "fast enough", it's that I don't know if he is capable of it or not. If Farah is, as many argue, at best around a 12:50 guy then you just can't factor him into any GOAT conversation. That's 1s per lap difference, and with that much difference there is no way Farah would be able to win against a prime Bekele or Geb...which by definition takes him out of consideration of GOAT on the track for me.

With that in mind, you assumed far, far too much when you concluded that I can't appreciate Farah is one of the best we have ever seen. Farah is among my favorite runners to watch, inspite of his "one strategy" running style. His near unbeaten record since 2011 worlds in his main events is one hell of an accomplishment. He never doesn't have it, always gets himself into the right position, and is uncannily good at timing when to really drive for the line. I don't care who you are, that's a feat that deserves much more respect and attention than it gets.

Weak Mo on PED wrote:

Hmmm, truncated post.

Sorry, Mo @ 4 Oly Golds IS LESS THAN Hannes Kolehmainen 4 Oly Golds + 1 Oly Silver (5k, 10k, Marathon, XC)

I agree but what if he is at 6 golds (in non boycotted games) by this time next year? If he doesn't win double gold then Bek 1st, Geb 2nd and anyone else you care to throw in the mix.

How is Mo going to get 6 Golds by this time next year? 1500, 5k, 10k, Marathon? That will never happen. 5k and 10k only, but his best odds to win another Gold (third) is stick with only one event.

This might be of interest to some runners. From the NY Times 1919 about Hannes Kolehmainen, a Finn and then American, and a multi-distance world record holder.

"Smooth Stride Chief Asset of Kolehmainen; Great Finnish Distance Runner, Who Has Plucked Titles Galore, Trains Earnestly and Has Amazing Stamina"

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9F0CE5DE1439E233A25756C0A9659C946796D6CF

Well, I guess that is the fundamental fact in our disagreement. I don't think for a second that Farah is only (lol) capable of around 12:50. His half marathon and 1500m bests suggest he would be faster than that and then just the way in which he has despatched sub 12:50 guys in competitions confirms it for me.

And anyway I don't think Farah is THE best we've seen, I feel a runner needs to take the WR in his distance(s) to be the GOAT even if the records don't last. Admittedly, this is harder in distance races especially during competitions.

That said, if Farah never runs faster than his 12:53 I will still regard him as right up there in the top 3/4 all time distance runners. You can speculate what Farah could or couldn't do but what he has done is done, double Olympic, five time World (plus a silver) and five time European champ, completing the double at successive Olympic and Worlds.

World records were set up for Haile and Kenenisa. That doesn't happen these days. We will never know how fast Mo could run 5000 or 10000.

Metric Miler wrote:

Well, I guess that is the fundamental fact in our disagreement. I don't think for a second that Farah is only (lol) capable of around 12:50. His half marathon and 1500m bests suggest he would be faster than that

If you run decent times at 1500 and half marathon it doesn't mean you will get by some magical averaging a super fast time somewhere in between, in 5K. His results at 1500m and half-marathon actually make perfect sense and probably reflect his training and approach to championship races. He knows he doesn't need to be in a 12:40 shape, not even in a 12:50 shape. He only needs a good aerobic conditioning to be able to survive rounds at Worlds without accumulating too much fatigue and to be relatively fresh at 1km to go after a fast but not super fast pace. For the former, he likely does a lot of work around half marathon pace to get that aerobic conditioning. Then he focuses on 1500m speed because that's what he needs for his kick. I doubt he's running too much at 12:40 pace in training and don't think he could run 12:40. Maybe 12:48 on the Monaco track in perfect conditions if he really pushed himself.

I guess he himself knows he cannot those fast times at 5K and that's one of the reasons he won't attempt to run a fast 5K with rabbits as it would just expose that he's not that good as some people think. He probably knows some people fantasize about those times, so better for him to leave them in their fantasies than to prove them wrong.

Also, I don't think he has ever beaten anyone in sub 12:50 shape. Yes, he did beat sub 12:50 people in London Olympics, but they ran those times in Paris early in the season, and likely were not in that shape in London anymore. Moreover, as most would agree, Gebremeskel would have won in London if he had positioned himself better.

Geb/Federer vs Mo/Nadal. Mo would be lucky to be ranked as highly as Nadal even.

Anyone who knows tennis knows that Federer is the best of all time, he has all of the records, similar to Geb. It's not even close.

teamdoc wrote:

The prevailing issue with athletics is that it is often boring. Mo being unchallenged is particularly tiring to watch. Would love to see someone at least try to "finish him" early, late, in the middle, or otherwise.

Try watching athletics. Like the Beijing World Championships just two months ago. It's quite easy nowadays: just open the telly when it's going on. Or youtube now that you missed it.

Correct, running fast times at 1500m and half marathon does not automatically give you a 5k/10k time that averages somewhere in between, I mentioned this in an earlier post. They are specific events in their own right. However it does indicate form better than 12:50 for example, when compared to other runners in that range that have nowhere near the 1500m capability or half marathon of Farah. Running them both in the same season certainly indicates he had phenomenal endurance and speed at the same time, which bodes well for a fantastic performance over 5000m/10000m. But, like you said, nobody can say how well he would convert those capabilities into actual performance. It is difficult to run hard for 12-25 laps of the track, especially when alone, it is a skill perhaps he does not have.

The rest of your post is your opinion and I'd have no place to comment.

we will never know wrote:

World records were set up for Haile and Kenenisa. That doesn't happen these days. We will never know how fast Mo could run 5000 or 10000.

Well, the "set up" for Kennys 26,17 was really lousy since he had to run something like half the race solo. Nobody prevents Farah from asking the pacers for a certain pace and if they are unable to hold he could take the lead but he never does.

It is very, very, simple. Farah never asks for a record pace because he can't run it.