Do you use strength training or is it pointless

runningart2004 wrote:

Baseball players, sprinters, football players, basketball players...pretty much every sport ever

do the opposite and you'll be fine.

Take what this guy says... wrote:

runningart2004 wrote:

Baseball players, sprinters, football players, basketball players...pretty much every sport ever

do the opposite and you'll be fine.

Alan is one of the few who have actually given good advice. People like you and JR are why it's so easy to win road races without much training effort

runningart2004 wrote:

Baseball players, sprinters, football players, basketball players

All the major endurance sports, you mean?

Dial it up wrote:

People like you and JR are why it's so easy to win road races without much training effort

Yes I agree it is easy for us and this is one of the reasons.

you're an idiot wrote:

runningart2004 wrote:

Baseball players, sprinters, football players, basketball players

All the major endurance sports, you mean?

All the anabolic steroid filled sports

Runningart2004 wrote:

Maximal Strength Training Improves Running Economy in Distance Runners

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18460997

Short Term Plyometric Training Improves Running Economy in Highly Trained Middle and Long Distance Runners

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17149987

The Impact of Resistance Training on Distance Running Performance

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12762828

The Effect of Plyometric Training on Distance Running Performance

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12627298

There are literally thousands more.

The question shouldn't be should you use strength training the question should be HOW?

Alan

Oh yes!!!! I'm SO impressed by these "15 well trained athletes" improving their VO2 max.

This is what I do and it works great for me on my limited schedule.

I've been at it week-in-and-week out for over 5 years and I'm not bulky from it. I do have some definition and a little extra bulk. But, if I spend more time doing aerobic exercise, I lose the bulk.

Cycling the weight room in and out of an endurance athlete's training plan will improve speed **for some.** For others, volume makes more speed. Everyone has to find what works best for them.

Dude, so many people would think that many pushups is a crazy waste of time. If I recall didn't German Fernandez do something like 400 pushups a day in High School. Keep doing them. Smart coach.[quote]MiddleDistance800 wrote:

I posted a few studies or reviews. Don't be lazy. Look up more research yourself.

It is a proven fact that strength training/plyos improves running economy and running performance.

Distance running gets the scraps. Strength coaches focus on the strength sports. No one cares about the Olympic sports. Typically strength training programing is left to the old coach who hasn't been into a gym since Nautilus was cool. Books on strength training for runners typically focus on the "functional" cool kid stuff. And these books don't sell anyway.

It takes very little effort for a distance runner to recieve great benefit from strength training. Maybe 30min twice a week.

Alan

In every one of these studies there was no increase in VO2 max recorded, only improvements in running economy.

Your insightful posts are one of the reasons I hang around on LRC. Thanks

again!.

Cheers,

yyy

runningart2004 wrote:

It is a proven fact that strength training/plyos improves running economy and running performance.

No, it's not. You clearly have no clue about science in general. No one in their right mind take such miniature high school type experiments seriously.

I've yet to see any 5k or longer runner on a serious run program who improves noticeably from incorporating weight training.

The vast majority of distance runners who start weight training get slower because they run less.

My person opinion is that the utility of it depends on the runner.

If you're young, male, and don't have any biomechanical weaknesses (weak glutes, etc), then your time is better spent running.

As an older female who is injury prone, I find it absolutely essential. If I back off on the gym, it catches up with me.

A few things....

VO2max doesn't matter...I thought we already covered that here? You could improve your performance by leaps and bounds without your VO2max moving an inch. Other factors also affect your running such as RE and LT. Strength training/plyos Improve RE.

There are always problems with research studies. They are too short, not enough subjects, the protocol is wack, or the subjects aren't specific to our needs (competitive runners). They are flawed but they still provide important data points.

Yes you need to maximize your runnIng by runnIng but if you value your running long term then you should do some sort of strength training for injury prevention. Still you should NOT replace your training with strength training, you should augment. 30 minutes 1-2 x a week is not asking a lot.

Also, Salazar's guys do resistence training (even with barbells! Oh the horror), Geb hit gym, Morceli hit the gym, Steve Spence (1991 world champs marathon bronze).

So you have all of these data points, the research and high-level runners, telling you strength training is beneficial. The bIggest Issue seems to be the how? Old school machIne cIrcuIts? Cool and sexy functIonal/specIfIc traInIng? Just plyos? It makes lIttle sense to put the roof on the house wIthout a strong foundatIon. Heavy strength traInIng provIdes the foundatIon for the cool functIonal stuff.

At least do something. Even if its nothing more than bodyweight exercises/plyos. Something is better than nothing.

Alan

for what it's worth wrote:

Dude, so many people would think that many pushups is a crazy waste of time. If I recall didn't German Fernandez do something like 400 pushups a day in High School. Keep doing them. Smart coach.[quote]MiddleDistance800 wrote:

Alan is a joke wrote:

The vast majority of distance runners who start weight training get slower because they run less.

Yeah that's what happened to me and it also made me heavy and delusional.

I'd say it worked pretty well for him in High School ! And it would be a safe bet that he didn't continue doing them in college. Do I think that is overkill, sure. Do I think that doing 8 x 80 will make you crazy strong, yes! Take a look at 2013 Foot Locker girls champ Tessa Barrett and the strength routine she did, didn't hurt her. We did P90X one summer and I thought the return was not worth the time invested. Love P90x especially the yoga, probably would have been better just doing the yoga.

We now do a specific set of exercises 3 sets 6 days a week and reduce the sets down to 1 set when we get close to conference.

While doing endless sets of pushups and so called high intensity programs like P90X and Insanity will make you stronger than doing nothing at all they are not great for runners because:

1. too metabolically demanding, too much focus on muscular endurance, too much stress for a runner who is already maximizing his endurance with running

2. There is no real strength involved with those programs.

I will say that the plyometric CD would be somewhat beneficial...but again they are using plyometrics for endurance which should not be the focus of plyometrics.

The reason you conduct heavy strength training (4-6 rep max or less), and intense plyometrics (3-5 contacts per set) is to improve running economy by A) improving the force producing qualities of the muscle through neuromuscular adaptation and B) decreasing ground contact time per stride.

Alan

runningart2004 wrote:

It takes very little effort for a distance runner to recieve great benefit from strength training. Maybe 30min twice a week.

Alan

Do what Alan says. Try it for six weeks. Then, if your running doesn't improve, feel free to stop.

Or, if you want to be a bit "sciencey", test yourself. If you can deadlift 2x your bodyweight or cover 25m in ten hops, maybe you don't need to invest in strength training. If you can only deadlift 1x bodyweight, the difference in your running after six weeks when you get to 1.25x will be noticeable.

I wish I had known more about strength training aged 16.