Training for 5k and 10k with the Van Aaken method ?

Waschke was about a minute forty over the world record in 1962 so that would be like running sub twenty eight today and he was once running 10,000s in over forty minutes. You might think his training was ineffective but to me it seems very effective. It's similar to what Zatopek did. No, no one trains that way anymore but that doesn't mean it wasn't effective even if other things seem to be more so and I put this here more for an historical perspective than anything.

I get the sense that you have a problem with the time involved but Waschke's time commitment would have been pretty similar to Zatopek's. That was not uncommon at the time. Bob Schul wrote in his autobiography that he trained for an hour and a half in the morning and and another two hours or so at night. Gordon Pirie put in similar amounts of time. One "drawback" to a heavy interval approach is that you will cover less distance in the same amount of training time as you'd do with steady runs but you'll probably run faster when you are running.

But if you look at what Norpoth did you see that he probably spent less than half the time training that Waschke and Forche did. And van Aaken himself managed forty six something for 10,000 meters at 62 on that daily hour long 10 km. That's not world class for his age but many, probably most, 62 year old guys would be very happy with that time.

I agree with HREs observations. While the volume may be much higher than is typical sessions today, working through various paces while continuing to keep the heart rate elevated in the upper aerobic zone offers much greater benefit with lower risk from the intervals. This method is nearly identical to the running Mark Nenow did when in his prime. The difference is Mark's were steady runs and Waschke's were broken up into sections.

Jim Spivey also trained this same way under the VanAken to Igloi to Durkin system and it worked out quite well for him.

HRE

I guess i have your article VAN AAKEN - THE MAN, in electronic edition (microsoft word) you sent me one day, some years ago.

If you want just email me and i will reply and includ your article, or fi you prefer i can post it directly on this thread.

Antonio,

I no longer have the complete article. It was on a computer that crashed. I made a back up copy of it but evidently I only backed up about half of it and that's all I have. Oddly, I did find a German version of it on line when I was looking for some performances for Roland Waschke. If you have the whole thing and want to post it that would be great. Then I can copy it and once again have the complete version.

Lots of good food for thought. At present I am running 4:00; walking 1:00. Very little stress on my legs and feel like I can go forever. Runs at 5:00 or 5:30 per km. Usually ends up with about 11 km an hour. No stress, no injuries, just enjoyment. That is what he would have wanted.

People are bored of my incessant talk about work and they are using the game less because of it? That's wonderful news! It's working.

This is a great thread I had missed until tonight. If you read it carefully and think about it, there's a lot more of value here than just some interesting history of training methods and their results.

Thanks especially to HRE for the great posts.

Antonio Cabral, if you would post the entire article that you apparently have that would be fantastic. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would love to read it. Thanks!

I totally agree. Has Acer72 tried EVA methods? If so to what extent and how is it going?

Van Aaken is great for someone who wants to run a 2:20 marathon to be all retro and stuff.But no, seriously, it is not a modern training method.I have had a hunch for awhile that HRE is basically "vladimir." Perhaps he's even the OP. Starting threads to keep himself busy. Let's be honest....who IS "vladimir?" Can we get a full name, just for verification?

acer72 wrote:

Thank you guys for the useful answers.

I don't know who HRE is, but I know Vladimir and see him running at least weekly. He is a very private person about his own running. He does beleive that great success can come from very little speed and lots of easy runs. I have run with him a few times and he talks training, racing, etc. However when I turn the conversation to his personal accomplishments he become silent. I have heard from others that he has broken 2:20, but as he has said that is not really a reason for living. Also he is in his 60's so running is for itself not racing.

Hope Vladimir doesn't mind...as he is extremely modest.

He has a huge body of work in the sport. Name is Vladimir Krivoy. Pretty sure he's run under 2:20...probably multiple times. He was really good for a long, long time. Just as an example...he ran 2:26:13 in the 1991 Boston Marathon. He was born in 1950 according to results.

He is a brilliant runner...and has been for a long, long time.

Van Aaken's method may not be a "modern" method...but that's only because many people have lost the plot.

HRE is not Vladimir. People need to actually read what is written before they make snap judgements.

I'm actually everybody on the thread. I'm even you.

"The present training of Watschke who has again joined my club will have somewhat the following look: In the mornings, starting at 5:45, he does 15 minutes of exercise (calisthenics), followed immediately by an easy warmup of 10-12 kilometers. His occupation busies him from 8:00am until 5 in the evening. from 5:30 until 8:30 p.m. he usually does the following: 5x3000 meters in the forest at a pace between 10 and 12 minutes with a three minute walking interval between each. Then he does 20x500 meters with a pickup in the pace from around the 300 meters mark. Each of these is done in about 1:30. Next he does 2x200 meters in around 29 seconds, and finishes with 3 kilometers of warming down running. With this training schedule, which amounts to 35-40 kilometers per day, we hope to bring Watschke under 14 minutes for the 5,000 and to get him down to"

Every day?

I apologize to Me Krivoy. I took this name not to impersonate anyone, but only to honor my childhood running idol of Vladimir Kuts. I also have broken 2:20 a few times, but hopefully my three children will remember me for more than my running. As to Eliz I did see you running today, however you didn't see me as I was by the bridge (adding to the river), sorry everyone, but having to stop during a multihour run is something we all have done. Let's not worry about who anyone is or what they have run. Instead let's cooperate in getting everyone to the running level they want. We are all different and there is no universal "best" method of training.