Do you think I can break 2minute 800 by the end of outdoor

Btw guys in outdoor I'm planning on just running the 400, 800, 4x4 4x8. The only reason I was running the 1600m is because my coach wanted me to score some points in it since we didn't have anyone better to run the mile sadly

Banana_and_apple wrote:

What type of workouts did you and our son do?

Base - ok a bit of steady running, up to 30-35 mins, only once a week and only for a month or two until he was fit enough to handle the other workouts. Subsequently all through base and comp, this is replaced with cruise intervals, which are about 5-6 x 1km on the 5 mins, usually in 3:30-3:40 - still once a week. Sometimes replaced with a vVo2max workout - 10-12 x 1 min at 2km pace and 1 min at half that pace, or 6 x 2 mins at 2km pace, 2 mins rest. This is the main aerobic workout and I think does more for an 800 runner aerobically, especially a speed type, than long steady running which a lot of them hate.

Sprints at least once a week all year round, though in base this can involve sleds, short hills etc. Improve top speed. In comp it moves to more 200-400m workouts.

In base - diagonals - at close to 800 speed, work on perfect form every stride. The reps aren't too long and it's done in joggers on grass, so doesn't trash your body.

Different types of hills at various times. In base short 6 second hills for power and speed. Some 30-40 sec hills at 800 speed.

A good core and strength regime.

In comp 800 specific workouts. Might be one week 2 x 5-6 x 200 with 30 secs rest in 30. 2nd week 2 x 3 x 300s in 45-46, 1 min recovery (ie slow jog the remaining 100). 3rd week 2 x 2 x 400, rests 2' between reps and 5' mins between the two sets. I found you can then run an 800 fresh at about 1 second faster per lap than he could do the 300 and 400 workouts.

At the end of those workouts, often 3 x 100 at 400 speed. Sometimes a 150 of 50 at 400 speed, 50 at 800 speed, 50 sprint, to practise changing gears.

Also in comp 400 specific workouts. Might be 150s and 200s flat out, 10-12' recovery. Alternatively 300-250-200 close to flat out, 12 min recovery.

Let me go back and check.

OK for 3 months leading up to a comp, it'd be one 200-400 session a week, one 800 specific a week, one aerobic/1500 type (like the cruise intervals one week, vVo2max the next week - by that I mean 1 min at 2km pace, 1 min at half that pace, times 10-12). Sometimes an easyish 20 min run, which would be about 8 mins at 8/mile pace and 12 mins at 6-6:30/mile pace. 1/2 mile of sprints, 1.5 miles max in an 800 session, 3.5 miles of cruise intervals/vVo2max, maybe 3 of an easy run. So 8-9 miles most weeks in season, not including warm up and warm down (which were not long either).

Maximum benefit from minimum work.

Not a big aerobic base, but he could go 58/59 reasonably comnfortably, and be able to come home strong. He didn't need to do any more than that.

He's doing more 400s now. He hasn't been able to train properly for 800 recently (hasn't fitted in with other things), but we're working on speed big time. The best 800 runners are the ones witht he best 400 time anyway. Rudisha and Amos are a second faster than the rest over 400, and that's why they're the fastest over 800. All the top ones are roughly similar in terms of fitness. It comes down to speed. Get the 200-400 time down, and the fitness can come later.

On the weekend for general 400 background fitness he did 3 x 400 with 3 mins rest in joggers on a trail solid but not too hard, in 63-62-58. He's only done about 3 sessions int he last 8 weeks of anything approaching 800 work, but this shows he could still go close to 2:00. Remember that hard 400 work has an aerobic element too.

In short if you want to train specifically for 800, you need to work on top speed, and this does not mean a few strides at the end of an easy run. It means getting a qulity sprint coach and working on improving your 100 time for 6-12 months, in conjunction with the other work you're doing. Most people recommending programs ignore speed, the no.1 most important thing. Anyone can coach fitness, but then even there, I think a lot of 800 programs overdo it. I just don't see how being able to run for an hour at a good speed helps an 800, other than giving you a bit of background fitness to be able to do the workouts better, ie training for training. Being able to crank a 200 in 22.8 is a lot more relevant.

You should be able to due it as long as you don't have a sickness/injury in the next few months. You're in high school, and in Illinois(same on both) so your coach will give you a training plan to follow. You are definitely a mid distance specialist, and i would suggest doing tempo runs this time of year, and you could get away with only doing 60 mins for a long run. Once outdoor comes you should be doing other workouts more speed oriented such as 20x200 or 10-12x400. I've had the honor of training with a few 800 state champs, and these were workouts we would see. Buy Jack Daniels running formula, its a good way to understand what you're doing and gives you a training after high school.

INCORRECT!

Flagpole wrote:

1) Only lift 2-3 times a week MAX. 5-6 times is way too much. Cut it out..AND make sure you are doing light weight high reps only. High weight low reps is for bodybuilders.

Wow. You clearly don't know much about strength training nor what bodybuilding is. OP, don't listen to his advice regarding weight-lifting. It is completely wrong and misinformed.

I agree that you need to focus on the speed portion. I actually at one point last year had the same prs except slightly faster in 1600 at 4 50, but your was done in practice so you really are the same.

I'm now a sub 2 guy and I never go on those long runs and only train on the track. The big thing is to not try to think about training too much and just stay consistent. I have always seen workouts on here that "indicate" a sub 2 and there is no way I could do some of them and I am pretty well under. Just trust your training and remain positive and remember that some ptactics may not go the best and some will. Remain optimistic and follow your training and try not to think really deeply about it

Also before the race when I broke sub 2 I imagined myself going out in the cretain split and how I would feel and getting the time. The next day everything I pictured went exactly how I pictured it so you should do that too. It can help

Thanks man I'm going to try thar. I've heard that lot of runners do that and ususally have a better race

That's for all the help and motivation. I'm not sure when I'll try that or do the 20x200 or the 10x400 but I was wondering how much rest in between each rep or set and what pace to do it in ? 800m pace?

My best 400 best was 53 and I broke 2

Flagpole wrote:

INCORRECT!

I was really trying to help this kid with some guidance towards reaching his potential in the 800m, but since everything I wrote was an opinion I don't see how it could be wrong?

It can be different than you would do, or different than someone else would do, but these aren't questions like "When was that War of 1812?" They are approaches taken by you or me or the Man on the Moon.

Just curious what part of what I wrote was objectively "INCORRECT"?

The year I first broke 2:00 my 400 pb was 54.5, my 800 1:59.4, 1500 was 4:37 and 5k xc was 17:25, so go figure.

The 800 does not require tons of 5k type endurance or a ton of speed to run fast. Its about combining both in the best way. You can do this through specific sessions, 200s, 300s, 400s at 800/1500 pace with short recoveries.

I certainly was not running 50mpw as 14/15 year old.

And I definitely wasn't lifting weights, just bodyweight circuit exercises such as press ups and crunches.

When it comes to racing, don't be afraid to go out in 57 for the first lap. If you die and run 62 for the final lap you'll still be very happy. For me I found the ideal pace to go out in was 58 mid, if you have enough specific endurance then when you get to 500m you can push on more and by the time you are at 150m/200m to go, you can push again and race that clock!

Good luck.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm planning to run just the 400/800 and the 2 relays hopefully but my coach keeps pushing the 1600 on me since my team doesn't have any milers and he thinks I'll be good at it. I don't think I'll me too successful in it since my legs cramps up and burn when I run a mile straight usually, it's mostly my lower legs like my shin and calf/ cab. not sure if I spelled that right. But I have question if I do the 800/1600 how much mileage should I do a week to run a good fast 8 and 1600. And what about the 400/800? On a usually track day we do at least too good fast speed work of about a total of 2 miles or a good not so easy not so hard 2milea of a track work.

OP,

You need to stay open to all kinds of running. It is hard to tell since all XC courses are different, but 16:30 for 3 miles is most likely better than either 54 for 400 or 2:06 for 800.

What did you do last summer to train for XC?

Did your lower legs cramp up/burn in XC?

Yeah I complained everyday when about it and Xc but my coach wouldn't Listin to me and I hated Xc because I always had the same pain. Last summer I just ran more miles. And last track session I got the practice in the 400 and 800 just from doing sprints pretty much everyday with about just 2miles a day so it was always about 8-10 miles a week

gfhgdhf wrote:

you gotta run at least 52.xx to break 2 lol

I ran a 1:58 and my best 400 during that season was a 54.2

What things did you do when you got those times? How much mileage did you do a week and what? What are your prs in others events