Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 01/25/2015

Yep, I too am a sophomore. Thanks, what are your track goals?

back into it - I love the 'easyish' 20, especially the day after a workout. Killer stuff, man. Good luck in the marathon.

Not a good week for me. I'm not at home to check the log, but I ran about 30 miles, all but 1 day in the between 7:50 and 8:30s. The other day I ran a tempo, 30 minutes @ 6:58 (probably 1/2 marathon pace) with about 20 minutes warm/cool.

Struck with heel pain, when walking, not running. Feels fine after 1 day off, then run again, hurts again walking. So, I skipped Sunday and yesterday, ran today already. So far, nothing. Hopefully I just needed 2 days in a row off to get over it. I'm guessing plantar fasciitis, but I don't know. If I relaxed my foot I could push a painful spot right at the heel/arch connection. If I plantar flexed, I couldn't push hard enough to get pain.

I don't know what would have caused it. No big sudden jumps in mileage. No speed work. No change in shoes. I have been running tempo on the treadmill at flat incline, so today I ran on a slight (1%) incline for my treadmill run.

I had a stress fracture in this heel 1 1/2 years ago, so it causes me concern, but this is different pain and no swelling.

Oh, and I'd like to have some opinion :)

Since healthy again I have been doing usually doubles on my easy days (usually 9 - 10 miles b4 breakfast and 5 miles in the evening) and one medium long run midweek (usually 15 - 16 miles). I'm planning my stuff till the end of April right now. And if I stay on this pattern (sry if my English is bad :D) I'd get up to something like 120 - 130 (perhaps 135) miles in my build up. In the past I've done more mileage but not as many specific sessions.

Do you feel like 9-10/5 is enough if I do my Intervals, medium LR, tempo and long pogressive run? I'm not really a physiologist and just want to not get problems because of a lack of easy, slow miles... RunnersFix and Garbage for example did more on their easy days but not as fast/long long tempo stuff - but it went well...On the other hand Canova (and my advisor, too) always preaches specifity so I might be better off running 12 - 15+ mile tempo runs, long hard runs (22 milets with MP segments and I will get up to at least 26 miles once or twice at medium pace) and recovering better. Also I feel like I'm able to do much sharper intervals and training is more fun than running 90' as primary run every day... I feel great every day and am a bit afraid of digging myself into a hole again with 140+ MPW. Blaznbison (he ran 63 and 2:17, hoping for better) did the training more my style, too...

Would love to hear some opinions!

Pikachu

Pikachu -

I think what you are doing makes sense. Every runner is different and you need to find what works for you. It seems like this has been working for you (running fast times, etc). I agree with the specificity in the training, and 120-130 seems like more than enough (especially with 15-16 mile "medium LR" and long tempos). For the marathon I have always found long tempos to be the best. Just make sure you are recovering (which it sounds like you are)

As an example, I haven't run as fast as you, but I am experimenting with mileage as well. I think I was on the other side of the extreme, my last marathon I ran 2:20 but it was on 75-80 mpw (now I'm testing the 100 mpw to see how that goes), and a few of my friends who ran 2:19 were running 80-85 mpw but with long workouts (16 mile tempo at GMP, 4-5X2 mi, etc). I think it is important to find what works for you, and making sure you don't run mileage just to hit numbers. You say you feel good, which is the important part, I would keep building on what you have going. Small tweaks will keep making you better, not huge overhauls (although I'm doing sort of a big overhaul, so we'll see).

Thanks man. Really appreciate your feedback (and if everyone wants he can tell me, too, as that's why I originally came in this thread: As motivation and solid feedback bc I had a rough year bc of overdoing things especially on the mileage side).

I think you will reap benefits of going up from 80 MPW to 100, as that's some sound mileage range - so you might give my PR a scare like RunnersFix did :) I have been hammering way more than you guys when I went 2:17 but have to admit in hindsight I might have burned a +/- 2:14-15 or so in training. In hindsight especially dumb was a 26.5 miler two weeks out where I averaged 5:10 for the last 10 and came back to do 6 x mile two days later where I really went hard again (like 4:37 or so) and completely wrecked myself. Needless to say on race day I fell off the pace and struggled to run 5:20s late in the game to screw my time.

That gets me motivated to try and get again to that level - and this time recover enough because I really think I was there, just a bit too tired. So perhaps I have this in me or even faster - anyway: I'm excited to try because I love that §#!7 :)

Pikachu

Forcerunner - scramble start = lying on stomach, then getting up and accelerating to top speed as fast as possible (alternating lead foot). My stride has definitely felt smoother and more powerful after doing this and flying 150's again as I neglected it entirely for a couple months

Pikachu - which marathon are you running?

Pikachu

I think you will be just fine with your current plan. No real need to go longer on your easy days with everything else you are doing. The specicivity is the important part.

If you look at what Canova does with his more experienced guys. They are not huge volume guys. Canova believes once you have built the aerobic house you do not need to keep building it, just maintaining it. You have been running at a high level for a number of years. I think your aerobic house is pretty well built. For you now and going forward it is all about increasing your volume that is done at race pace.

Stick in that 120-130 range and you are going to kill it.

I have been busy and so not posted or commented this week. I just saw this so wanted to throw my 0.02 cents.

i'm no expert on marathon running Pikachu but just by looking at your training over the last few weeks, it looks like your current plan is solid. I've noticed a good mixture of 10K pace stuff, Tempo work and short speed intervals? have you also raced 10Ks @ MP during your latest cycle? If 140+ mpw has put you in a difficult position then i reckon sticking to 120-130mpw would be the best option. You've got enough experience (just by looking at your times) to know when things aren't quite right and something needs tweaking. back into it gives some good advice... you just need to do what you think will give you success! atm it sounds like everything is going really well so just keep it up! Your marathon is 3 months away... theres still a lot of time to discover it all :)

Pikachu- Overall, I think what you're doing currently is best. Just stay consistent. What worked for me though in my Houston buildup was quantity over quality with a slow build up on the amount of quality I added during the whole cycle. Once I got up to around peak mileage I pretty much stayed there. From there the quality sessions were increased slowly. From what you're saying about your past with wanting to run more and not racing too well seems to me that you should find that sweet spot in the mileage and hold it and build on the quality from there.

Also, from what you've said about doing quality sessions close to your peak race like you have done I would probably cut that out if possible. The sweet spot for me was not doing anything too hard about 3-4 weeks out. Most marathoners have a peak workout they aim for about 3-4 weeks out so for me that would be my last hard session. You would still do your workouts but just not as hard. Keep it simple and save it for race day. I know a guy who is all about crushing his workouts close to his big races. He seemed like a very smart runner too but come race day he never did well. Even to this day. He feels that the faster his workouts are the faster he'll be on race day. It never worked out like that. I wouldn't fall into that trap.

About the long tempo stuff...I would look into what your mileage is because if you're doing a solid amount of mileage then the legs are already tired so doing a long tempo of 13 or more miles might not be needed. Maybe break it down into long intervals like 3x4 mile or 4x3 mile. I went into Houston thinking I wasn't going to be ready because I didn't do a single long tempo but since the consistent high mileage was already in place I was actually getting the same benefit as if I was doing a long tempo. Once the taper came around I was ready to roll on race day.

Honestly, I think you're much faster than me. By judging your workouts I would predict around 2:15 currently. You're a smart runner and only you will know what works best for you. Good luck and hope everything works out.

Hey guys, I just wanted to say I really enjoy everyone's updates but especially RunnersFix, Pikachu, back into it. I've only posted my training in here a couple of times, not regularly, so no one probably remembers me. I'm aspiring to get to these guys' level though and it's encouraging to see the results they are getting.

I ran a 67:3x half marathon last year off 7 months of training after a little layoff. My stretch goal is sub 65 this year. I've really increased my training regimen, from 70 miles per week average before last year's race to closer to 100 this year. Hopefully it pays dividends.

Anyways, keep it up everybody!

thelogistician - nice to have you back!

distance fan - wish you the best!

hardloper - date is 04/26. Which marathon I'll see (down to two options but don't wanna call it early).

rqkid & Matthias - yeah, I've done some 10k races - although two were flat out and on hilly courses so no great times (fastest was my last 10k in that 6.9 mile race: 30:14. 300+ ft of climbs in there). Right now I think I could run PR-ish everywhere from 10k and up, so I'm definitely in a good spot. I all just makes me just wonder a bit - to be honest I got in very good shape very fast and feel a bit like I didn't "deserve" it because I barely struggeled with hard sessions. But probably that's the reason why all went well till now. All was well planned and under control most of the time. No brainless balls to the wall workouts or too fast *easy* runs. I still have three months so if I see I struggle on my longer stuff I can still up the miles - but probably won't significantly... What I will will do is lengthen my long runs a bit. But I have some time left for that. Thanks for you input guys!

RunnersFix - you executed very well and when I look at your training and at my training the last couple weeks I really feel like consistency and going by feel is way more important than numbers. I even think the specifics aren't THAT important - it's the bigger picture. But of course, for example the mentioned 26+ mile workout 17 days out (did that in 2012) was just stupid. I wasn't feeling like doing it but like the runner you said that crushes his workouts just banged my head against the wall. And fried body before the race. Not the proper way to train at all.

I know so many runners that overtrain, especially in our range (say 2:15 - 2:20). Perhaps it's because were close to REALLY good so it's tempting to rush things. That being said I will just listen to my body in this build up, take a couple easy days when needed and see where I can get. Not trying to just hit numbers but to progress piece by piece. If I manage to stay healthy - not just till April, but further down the road - I really can see me dropping more than just a couple minutes. But that's it: If I stay smart and train to race. Not train to just tell "oh man, I did this crazy 30 mile workout" - and then suck :D And btw: I really can see you runnng much faster than 2:18, too. Keep up the good work!