RE: I run 140miles a week but cant break 18.30 for 5kms,

Run half the mileage but do everything quicker. Do at least two sessions a week where you spend a lot of time running at least as fast as your goal race pace (interval,fartlek,hills etc). Once a week do some pure leg speed work (say 6-8x150 with 250 walk/jog recovery) before your longish run.

In short, do some serious training for thd event you want to race instead of all this mileage which has to be much,much slower than race pace. Over distance work plays a part in any schedule but the whole programme has to be balanced. If you want to race fast you have to train fast. All top athletes both past and present did/do a lot of fast training in their annual training plan..

Lol.

I, and many of my bros from CrossFit Elite training, are able to run faster than that on about 5mpw. Basically just doing CrossFit and then some CrossFit style sprint repeats thrown in here.

But to each their own. If you want to waste your time, go ahead...

Your schedule is just easy miles every day.

When I first started doing high mileage I did the same thing, but included one or two fast sessions each week, and usually a race or time trial on the weekends.

A fast session that I did a few times before breakthroughs in the marathon, were 4x 440 with 440 walks after each, at a fast, controlled, but not all out pace. From memory, I started them around 80 seconds as I'd only been jogging for awhile, and in a month was running them in 65 with about the same effort. They usually followed a longer steady run, for example 14 miles, then 4x440, plus an easy mile warmdown.

A routine session 10x440 fast, with 440 jogs gasping for breath, or the same but running them at 10k pace, i.e. moderate, and easy recoveries. Before marathons I ran 16x 330 on a dirt track a few times, with 110y coasts, or 4x mile with 440 coasts (fast jogs). A good pre marathon training was 4 to 21 mile pace runs, sometimes running the last mile fast like a race, but controlled.

I think you can modulate the same schedule you have, and tweak it to add some faster running and pick up your pace. Plus you don't need to make big changes all at once, but add a few little things here and there and see what is working for you. Time trials and races are good as you can test what you're doing.

john9090 wrote:

Thanks for all of the replys

Should I have a week off then start fresh feeling fresh? I cant remember the last day I didnt run st all. Or should I just reduce mileage by 50% asap?

If I were your coach, I'd say take 2 weeks completely off to off-set any overtraining you've incurred. Then start up slow:

1st 4 weeks after the break:

1) 20-30-40-30-40-50-rest (minutes by day, 20 monday, 30 tuesday, and so on)

2) 30-40-50-40-50-60-rest

3) 40-50-60-50-60-75-rest

4) 50-60-75-60-75-90-rest

then we start the base phase(9 weeks):

M- 60 min, drills and 4 strides

T- 20 min warm up, drills and 4 strides, 20-30 min fartlek, 20 min cool down

W- 75 min

T- 60 min, drills and 4 strides

F- 20 min warm up, drills and 4 strides, 4-5k tempo (about 6:30 pace for you plus/minus a few seconds depending on how you feel on the given day), 20 min cool down

S- 90 min

S- rest day

base phase fartleks in order: 10 x 1 min fast 1 min slow, 5 x 2 min fast 2 min slow, 4 x 3 min fast 2 min slow, 15 x 1 min fast 1 min slow, 6 x 2 min fast 2 min slow, 5 x 3 min fast 2 min slow, 7 x 2 min fast 2 min slow, 6 x 3 min fast 2 min slow, 8 x 2 min fast 2 min slow. (the fast sections anywhere between 10k/10mile pace, the slow sections are just slow jogging)

Then the speed phase(10 weeks)

M- 60 min, drills and 4 strides

T- 20 min warm up, drills and 4 strides, speed workout, 20 min cool down

W- 75 min

T- 60 min, drills and 4 strides

F- 20 min warm up, drills and 4 strides, 5-6k tempo (about same pace as in base phase or faster if you're in better shape), 20 min cool down

S- 90 min

S- rest day

sped phase speed workouts(10 weeks):

1- 8 x 400 in 88-90 with 200m jog recovery

2- 4 x 800 in 2:56-3:00 with 400m jog recovery

3- 3 x 1200 in 4:24-4:30 with 600m jog recovery

4- 2 x 1600 in 5:52-6:00 with 800m jog recovery

5- 10 x 400 in 88-90 with 200m jog recovery

6- 5 x 800 in 2:56-3:00 with 400m jog recovery

7- 12 x 400 in 88-90 with 200m jog recovery

8- 6 x 800 in 2:56-3:00 with 400m jog recovery

9- 4 x 1200 in 4:24-4:30 with 600m jog recovery

10- 3 x 1600 in 5:52-6:00 with 800m jog recovery

Tempos: don't do the same distance for tempos in back to back weeks. So in base one week is 4k tempo, next week is 5k tempo, then 4k tempo, and so on. In speed phase its 5k tempo, next week 6k tempo, then 5k tempo, and so on.

Racing: only race on Saturdays. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday stay the same in the schedule. Wednesday is increased from 75 min up to the 90 min. Friday is an easy 45 min run, drills, and 4 strides instead of the tempo. Then Saturday you do the 20 min warm up jog, drills, and 4 strides and race, then 20 min cool down jog after the race. When racing, the race essentially takes place of the tempo. You can race in either base or speed phases. With a 5k focus, you do either 5k or 10k races, nothing else.

I can not thank you enough for that post.

Yes I will admit it that im over trained and tired. Hence why I cant run fast.

Taking two weeks off would be the hardest thing for me to do. But I would really like to follow that plan..... thanks so much for the reply.

john9090 wrote:

I can not thank you enough for that post.

Yes I will admit it that im over trained and tired. Hence why I cant run fast.

Taking two weeks off would be the hardest thing for me to do. But I would really like to follow that plan..... thanks so much for the reply.

You're very welcome. Without going into details, I was once in a very similar situation as you. The approach listed above helped revitalize my running and lead to some nice PRs and a defining victory in my local half marathon.

The 2 week break is hard. But it is necessary. If Bernard Lagat can take 5 weeks off after the NYC 5th Avenue mile, you can take 2 weeks off. Just some perspective there I guess. During the break, try not to think too much about running. Sleep in, eat junk food, whatever. Doesn't matter. Just be a regular lazy person for 2 weeks. It'll be nice for a bit, and about the time it gets old you're near the end of your break and excited to run again.

thanks again

i guess the hardest bit is not running and resting which i know its a must, but like all runners find it hard. i cant remember the last time i didn't run.

here we go i guess day 1 rest..

Prolly been said, but maybe you're a middle distance guy? I like the lift weights, plyos, flying 30's idea. Then go for the 800!

You need to do speed workouts. Distance is great for endurance, but to become faster, you should focus on speed. Now, don't do 40 miles at a fast pace, instead do short distances with fast speeds. Try fartleks, 30 60's, and 200 meter splits.

I didn't run more than 35 mpw during my xc season, but the speed workouts helped immensely. Keep running man, don't give up. You've got the endurance, now it's time to focus on the speed.

you're doing it wrong

Jason K wrote:

you're doing it wrong

some of these old threads are interesting. I wonder what the guy made of himself, assuming he took the advice in this thread. I wish we'd get people come back to update more often.

That's way too fast. At 22 minute 5k shape, your easy runs should be like 10 minutes/mile. I'm a 19:30 guy and do my easy runs at 9:10 pace on average

And to OP, you should cut your mileage in half and add in speedier stuff. Tempos, reps, intervals. You're clearly resilient, but you haven't trained the systems you need to run a fast 5k

Halve your mileage and do track work twice a week or something. Just doing easy runs is trying to apply the "run slow to get fast" sect of dogma and I don't think it works like that in this situation. You may have a very high VO2max but a low ventilatory threshold (typically called an ~~anaerobic threshold~~), making it difficult for you to clear lactic buildup in your legs, but still allowing you to go far and relatively slow.

Even just doing 1000m repeats would do a lot of good I think, and work your way down from those to 400m repeats over time, even at just tempo pace. With your volume I feel like you could manage 16x400m @ threshold or tempo pace just fine. Maybe closer to your goal race you can just do 10-12x400m fast to try and hone your speed.

Simply adding on more mileage when it hasn't made a difference in the past is just doing the same thing and expecting different results. Regardless of what you do, I'd cut mileage.

agc5k has some really detailed points though. mine were much more general.

0/10

Forget about the 5k. With that volume of miles switch to the half marathon or marathon. Good luck!

agree-you should be able run run 17-18 minutes off 70 miles a week with a couple quality sessions a week. I assume that you are relatively young -ie. under 50. long intervals with shorter rests as mentioned will help out a lot with getting used to running 6 min mile pace-take a day off here or there -doesn't hurt; I'm sure your times will do down after a few months of this program..good luck!

Running destroys muscles from the inside out due to the lactic acid accumulation effect.

Switch to linebacker training. Running is a bad human invention. Stay below 40 yards.

@john9090

What's happened to you? LetsRun should seek this guy out and do an interview.