Evaluate my HM training plan

Training Advice/Discussion Marathon

10 years ago 03/09/2014 9:09pm EDT

PB - 1:13:43. (1 year ago)

Goal - 1:12:30

Age - 36/ male

Here is my 12 week plan for a HM. Prior to this schedule I was running approx. 50-60 miles a week for about 3-4 months.

1st Phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - about 70 miles a week

Sun - a.m.12-14 miles with last 4-5 miles at 5:50 - 6:00 pace p.m. 4 miles easy

Mon. - off

Tues - Fartlek - 1:30 (5:00 pace) 2:30 easy (7:30 pace) x 10

Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs hard

Thurs - hills - 10 x 2:00 (6 incline on treadmill) at 6:00/ mile with 3:00 rest

Fri. A.m. - 5 miles easy. P.m. - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs hard

Sat. A.m. - 8 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy

2nd phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - 70-75 miles a week

Sun. - a.m14-16 miles with last 4-5 miles at 6:00/ mile p.m. 4 miles easy

Mon . - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.

Tues. - 6 x mile - 5:25 pace with 3:00 rest or 4 x 2 miles at 5:35 pace 3:00 rest

Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.

Thurs. - 6 x 800 m (2:30) - equal rest

Fri. - 8 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.

Sat. A.m. - 7 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy

3rd Phase - 4 weeks - 60 - 70 miles a week

Sun. - 16-17 miles last 6 miles at 5:50-6:00

Mon. - off

Tues. - 5-7 miles tempo (5:32 pace)

Wed. - 8 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.

Thurs. - 5-6 x 1 k at 3:05-3:10 pace with 1:30 recovery

Fri. - 8 miles easy

Sat. A.m. - 6 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs. P.m. - 4 miles easy

I will add some variation to the workouts but they will still be of the same type. Appreciate any recommendations. I know my mileage is modest but with 2 kids and a busy job it's all I am willing to do. Thanks

10 years ago 03/10/2014 8:15am EDT

re: Stuart_White

10 years ago 03/10/2014 8:22am EDT

re: Stuart_White

Too much running, not enough CrossTraining.

Also, no REAL sprints.

Are you trying to lose weight instead of getting BUFF.

Adjust your priorities, brah.

10 years ago 03/10/2014 6:01pm EDT

re: Xfit_guy_the_real_1

Xfit_guy_the_real_1 wrote:
Too much running, not enough CrossTraining.
Also, no REAL sprints.
Are you trying to lose weight instead of getting BUFF.
Adjust your priorities, brah.

Hmmmmmm, one last chance at some serious replies

10 years ago 03/10/2014 6:05pm EDT

re: Stuart_White

it looks like your ready to set a new personal record!!!

I hope I will too!

10 years ago 03/10/2014 8:46pm EDT

re: Stuart_White

Stuart_White wrote:
PB - 1:13:43. (1 year ago)
Goal - 1:12:30
Age - 36/ male
Here is my 12 week plan for a HM. Prior to this schedule I was running approx. 50-60 miles a week for about 3-4 months.
1st Phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - about 70 miles a week
Sun - a.m.12-14 miles with last 4-5 miles at 5:50 - 6:00 pace p.m. 4 miles easy
Mon. - off
Tues - Fartlek - 1:30 (5:00 pace) 2:30 easy (7:30 pace) x 10
Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs hard
Thurs - hills - 10 x 2:00 (6 incline on treadmill) at 6:00/ mile with 3:00 rest
Fri. A.m. - 5 miles easy. P.m. - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs hard
Sat. A.m. - 8 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy
2nd phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - 70-75 miles a week
Sun. - a.m14-16 miles with last 4-5 miles at 6:00/ mile p.m. 4 miles easy
Mon . - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.
Tues. - 6 x mile - 5:25 pace with 3:00 rest or 4 x 2 miles at 5:35 pace 3:00 rest
Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.
Thurs. - 6 x 800 m (2:30) - equal rest
Fri. - 8 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.
Sat. A.m. - 7 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy
3rd Phase - 4 weeks - 60 - 70 miles a week
Sun. - 16-17 miles last 6 miles at 5:50-6:00
Mon. - off
Tues. - 5-7 miles tempo (5:32 pace)
Wed. - 8 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.
Thurs. - 5-6 x 1 k at 3:05-3:10 pace with 1:30 recovery
Fri. - 8 miles easy
Sat. A.m. - 6 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs. P.m. - 4 miles easy
I will add some variation to the workouts but they will still be of the same type. Appreciate any recommendations. I know my mileage is modest but with 2 kids and a busy job it's all I am willing to do. Thanks

I think your "tempo" runs in 3rd phase are too long. 4 miles at HM pace would be about right.

Other than that, is this essentially the training that got you to 1:13?

10 years ago 03/10/2014 9:40pm EDT

re: letsrun internet training

4 miles at HMP is not long enough. that's running 22 minutes at a pace you want to run for 72 minutes, not a solid plan.

6-7 miles is great.

OP i think you need to add more long fartleks

in the 2nd phase, and possibly also the 1st, you should do stuff like 8x(3 on, 2 off) or 12x(2 on, 1 off). 5:00 pace isn't necessary. 5:10-5:20 is good, as long as you keep the off portions pretty quick, like 6:00-6:20/mi. you can switch it up later, doing 4:50 or 5:00 for the fast parts and jogging the slower parts.

also, scrap the 800s in 2:30. too easy of a workout, and not worth doing on the track. you can just do 2:30 hard on the roads/trails without the beating you'll get on the track.

also for phase 2, re: 6x1mi in 5:25 w/3min rest. i'd recommend either cutting the rest down to 90-120 sec or making the miles faster, maybe 5:15.

10 years ago 03/10/2014 9:49pm EDT

re: Stuart_White

Stuart_White wrote:
PB - 1:13:43. (1 year ago)
Goal - 1:12:30
Age - 36/ male
Here is my 12 week plan for a HM. Prior to this schedule I was running approx. 50-60 miles a week for about 3-4 months.
1st Phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - about 70 miles a week
Sun - a.m.12-14 miles with last 4-5 miles at 5:50 - 6:00 pace p.m. 4 miles easy
Mon. - off
Tues - Fartlek - 1:30 (5:00 pace) 2:30 easy (7:30 pace) x 10
Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs hard
Thurs - hills - 10 x 2:00 (6 incline on treadmill) at 6:00/ mile with 3:00 rest
Fri. A.m. - 5 miles easy. P.m. - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs hard
Sat. A.m. - 8 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy
2nd phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - 70-75 miles a week
Sun. - a.m14-16 miles with last 4-5 miles at 6:00/ mile p.m. 4 miles easy
Mon . - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.
Tues. - 6 x mile - 5:25 pace with 3:00 rest or 4 x 2 miles at 5:35 pace 3:00 rest
Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.
Thurs. - 6 x 800 m (2:30) - equal rest
Fri. - 8 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.
Sat. A.m. - 7 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy
3rd Phase - 4 weeks - 60 - 70 miles a week
Sun. - 16-17 miles last 6 miles at 5:50-6:00
Mon. - off
Tues. - 5-7 miles tempo (5:32 pace)
Wed. - 8 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.
Thurs. - 5-6 x 1 k at 3:05-3:10 pace with 1:30 recovery
Fri. - 8 miles easy
Sat. A.m. - 6 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs. P.m. - 4 miles easy
I will add some variation to the workouts but they will still be of the same type. Appreciate any recommendations. I know my mileage is modest but with 2 kids and a busy job it's all I am willing to do. Thanks

I think you are doing too much hard running. Injury risk looks very high running this way. I ran 1:15 around 100 mile weeks with about one fartlek or tempo per week, along with alternating weeks of long hills for strength and short hills for speed. I would take out the things like: + 10 x :30 secs etc and add in an extra 2-3 miles. Just do 4-8 strides after your tempo and fartleks to get the same benefits but at the same time letting your body rest on the easy days.

EASY DAYS EASY AND THE HARD DAYS HARD.

10 years ago 03/10/2014 11:28pm EDT

re: letsrun internet training

letsrun internet training wrote:
Stuart_White wrote:
PB - 1:13:43. (1 year ago)
Goal - 1:12:30
Age - 36/ male
Here is my 12 week plan for a HM. Prior to this schedule I was running approx. 50-60 miles a week for about 3-4 months.
1st Phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - about 70 miles a week
Sun - a.m.12-14 miles with last 4-5 miles at 5:50 - 6:00 pace p.m. 4 miles easy
Mon. - off
Tues - Fartlek - 1:30 (5:00 pace) 2:30 easy (7:30 pace) x 10
Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs hard
Thurs - hills - 10 x 2:00 (6 incline on treadmill) at 6:00/ mile with 3:00 rest
Fri. A.m. - 5 miles easy. P.m. - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs hard
Sat. A.m. - 8 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy
2nd phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - 70-75 miles a week
Sun. - a.m14-16 miles with last 4-5 miles at 6:00/ mile p.m. 4 miles easy
Mon . - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.
Tues. - 6 x mile - 5:25 pace with 3:00 rest or 4 x 2 miles at 5:35 pace 3:00 rest
Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.
Thurs. - 6 x 800 m (2:30) - equal rest
Fri. - 8 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.
Sat. A.m. - 7 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy
3rd Phase - 4 weeks - 60 - 70 miles a week
Sun. - 16-17 miles last 6 miles at 5:50-6:00
Mon. - off
Tues. - 5-7 miles tempo (5:32 pace)
Wed. - 8 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.
Thurs. - 5-6 x 1 k at 3:05-3:10 pace with 1:30 recovery
Fri. - 8 miles easy
Sat. A.m. - 6 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs. P.m. - 4 miles easy
I will add some variation to the workouts but they will still be of the same type. Appreciate any recommendations. I know my mileage is modest but with 2 kids and a busy job it's all I am willing to do. Thanks
I think your "tempo" runs in 3rd phase are too long. 4 miles at HM pace would be about right.
Other than that, is this essentially the training that got you to 1:13?

Good question, no this is actually quite different. I'm including a lot more "fast" running than in the past (fartleks, strides, etc.) . To get to 1:13 trained very "simply" - just a tempo each week at goal pace and maybe a day of hills, and a long run of about 16 miles. I feel like I'm training more like a 10 k runner than a half marathon/ marathon runner.

10 years ago 03/10/2014 11:33pm EDT

re: reed

reed wrote:
4 miles at HMP is not long enough. that's running 22 minutes at a pace you want to run for 72 minutes, not a solid plan.
6-7 miles is great.
OP i think you need to add more long fartleks
in the 2nd phase, and possibly also the 1st, you should do stuff like 8x(3 on, 2 off) or 12x(2 on, 1 off). 5:00 pace isn't necessary. 5:10-5:20 is good, as long as you keep the off portions pretty quick, like 6:00-6:20/mi. you can switch it up later, doing 4:50 or 5:00 for the fast parts and jogging the slower parts.
also, scrap the 800s in 2:30. too easy of a workout, and not worth doing on the track. you can just do 2:30 hard on the roads/trails without the beating you'll get on the track.
also for phase 2, re: 6x1mi in 5:25 w/3min rest. i'd recommend either cutting the rest down to 90-120 sec or making the miles faster, maybe 5:15.

Thanks for the thoughtful response. My reasoning for the longer rest was to stay away from too much of a vo2 max workout, but rather to become comfortable at running faster speeds - so that it's more of a neuromuscular type workout if that makes sense. The 800s will be done on the road in a Fartlek style. Perhaps the rest is a tad long

10 years ago 03/10/2014 11:40pm EDT

re: midwest runnr

midwest runnr wrote:
Stuart_White wrote:
PB - 1:13:43. (1 year ago)
Goal - 1:12:30
Age - 36/ male
Here is my 12 week plan for a HM. Prior to this schedule I was running approx. 50-60 miles a week for about 3-4 months.
1st Phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - about 70 miles a week
Sun - a.m.12-14 miles with last 4-5 miles at 5:50 - 6:00 pace p.m. 4 miles easy
Mon. - off
Tues - Fartlek - 1:30 (5:00 pace) 2:30 easy (7:30 pace) x 10
Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs hard
Thurs - hills - 10 x 2:00 (6 incline on treadmill) at 6:00/ mile with 3:00 rest
Fri. A.m. - 5 miles easy. P.m. - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs hard
Sat. A.m. - 8 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy
2nd phase - 4 weeks (typical week) - 70-75 miles a week
Sun. - a.m14-16 miles with last 4-5 miles at 6:00/ mile p.m. 4 miles easy
Mon . - 5 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.
Tues. - 6 x mile - 5:25 pace with 3:00 rest or 4 x 2 miles at 5:35 pace 3:00 rest
Wed - 9 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.
Thurs. - 6 x 800 m (2:30) - equal rest
Fri. - 8 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs.
Sat. A.m. - 7 miles easy. P.m. 4 miles easy
3rd Phase - 4 weeks - 60 - 70 miles a week
Sun. - 16-17 miles last 6 miles at 5:50-6:00
Mon. - off
Tues. - 5-7 miles tempo (5:32 pace)
Wed. - 8 miles easy + 10 x :30 secs.
Thurs. - 5-6 x 1 k at 3:05-3:10 pace with 1:30 recovery
Fri. - 8 miles easy
Sat. A.m. - 6 miles easy + 6 x :30 secs. P.m. - 4 miles easy
I will add some variation to the workouts but they will still be of the same type. Appreciate any recommendations. I know my mileage is modest but with 2 kids and a busy job it's all I am willing to do. Thanks
I think you are doing too much hard running. Injury risk looks very high running this way. I ran 1:15 around 100 mile weeks with about one fartlek or tempo per week, along with alternating weeks of long hills for strength and short hills for speed. I would take out the things like: + 10 x :30 secs etc and add in an extra 2-3 miles. Just do 4-8 strides after your tempo and fartleks to get the same benefits but at the same time letting your body rest on the easy days.
EASY DAYS EASY AND THE HARD DAYS HARD.

I definitely am trying to squish in a lot of faster running into this plan. I do a lot better with longer tempos than shorter vo2 max type work. This schedule is trying to address that weakness, and hopefully develop an energy system that is underdeveloped - thus hopefully leading to better times. I'm also at a point where I just don't seem to be improving by simply repeating the same training. Balancing this kind of training with recovery is challenging for me though and lately I'm feeling a little beat down by it

10 years ago 03/11/2014 6:59am EDT

re: Stuart_White

Easy way to beat feeling beat down is to slow way down (embarrassing pace) on your easy days for a few days and see if that fixes the problem.

10 years ago 03/11/2014 9:02pm EDT

re: Stuart_White

Stuart_White wrote:
letsrun internet training wrote:
I think your "tempo" runs in 3rd phase are too long. 4 miles at HM pace would be about right.
Other than that, is this essentially the training that got you to 1:13?
Good question, no this is actually quite different. I'm including a lot more "fast" running than in the past (fartleks, strides, etc.) . To get to 1:13 trained very "simply" - just a tempo each week at goal pace and maybe a day of hills, and a long run of about 16 miles. I feel like I'm training more like a 10 k runner than a half marathon/ marathon runner.

Half marathon training is much closer to 10k than to marathon. I think you'd be better off sticking with what got you to 1:13, and maybe change one thing based on the experience.

A good alternative to a "tempo run" would be to warm up as needed, then run 40 minutes or so at 4:00 HM pace / 4:00 easy pace, so that the average pace for the 40 minutes is fairly close to marathon pace.

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