Also consider how weightlifters build strength. They avoid working the same muscle group two days in a row. The result is that the muscles strength increases faster.
I notice that both of these men are receivers. This means a tremendous amount of cuts and pivots off the groin. On top of that they are constantly planting and changing direction. Also they must leap up to catch passes.
This is probably a case of not enough healing time. Just my guess. Maybe certain sports/positions it is harder to return. It was harder for grant hill (hoops is alot of pivots and jumping)....It seems the straight ahead runners and cyclists do not appear to have these setbacks.
Ultimately, like waves said we must be responsible for our bodies after the docs repair them.
I know i have alot of work to do since i have/had lumbar pain as well. I have put on weight because of this (35 pounds and that has not helped my posture. So it is up to me to drop the weight and get the whole core strong/flexible because i could not live like that anymore. At the time of surgery my pain was primarily groin/abs and leg pressure. Back had subsided mostly.
So what are you suggesting for yourself? You seem to be all over the map?
I am not a huge fan of the bad news to be honest. I am trying to stay positive about my recovery and all you do is say how bad surgery is and why should people do it. And maybe pot smoking will help. and some 33 hr rule and so on.
Why not post success stories so the people who are thinking of having surgery are not scared off by you. The success rate is 95+% and most people on here say the first 6 months are a grind but are happy they had it.
Anyways, you are on a mission of sorts to re-invent the wheel so to speak.
I mean today you asked me to respond a simple yes or no to pain because that is what Boyles says. That is in regards to his SH prevention routine. It is not fair to ask that of someone who had invasive surgery 11 days ago that question. There is different kinds of pain post surgery. Alot of mine bounces around....sometimes dull...sometimes sharp...sometimes there....sometimes not...sometimes deep....sometimes just pressure......i know i am getting stronger and can do adduction which 4 days ago i could not do....after each workout i am deeply sore and regret it, but the next day it seems easier.....
I talked to Meyers tonight and he told me to keep up the pool work and call him in 2 weeks. He says it sounds like normal inflammation and that i am doing alot quicker than many. He also told me to do what i can except situps and any quick movement involving weights.
I am probably going to limit my walks to 1 per day for awhile because i am inflammed. I am taking enzymes at night and morning. Hope they help.
I am glad i went to Meyers because i had no other choice. I hope others do not read your posts and see them as gospel because you are painting such a negative picture.
I mean....you really do not know if you have it?
I am trying to stay on here to let people know what the rehab is going like....play by play, but these posts of a negative nature make me not want to even look.
I do not mind fair and balanced but you come up with crazy theories about drinking and smoking pot. You only post the horror stories and any study that fits your fears/negative spin.
I, on the other hand am trying to help others see that surgery is 95%+ successful and I am also trying to stay positive myself. When you feel good and then have pain come back it is upsetting physically and emotionally.
I asked Meyers if the severity of mine made it any more time to heal and he said it was the time i was injured more so than the size of the tear. Also my steri-strips fell off today and my scar is only 4"....a full 1.5" was steri-strip....
is there a difference in sports hernia and inguinal hernia ??????
and what is the best method for treating an inguinal hernia ????
is there any point in doing rehab with an inguinal hernia ?
cause for the last 11 weeks i have done alot of rehab and it hasnt doent anything. I still having pain in my lower abdomens and gluts/groin
Why would you not follow the rehab protocol of the surgeon? Why only every 2nd or 3rd day?
Weightlifters only really hit 1 muscle group per week if they are serious bodybuilders due to the fact the tissue which is damaged needs to repair and when it does it does so bigger and stronger.
To answer why i am pushing it is because that is how i operate and that is what i was told by meyers. We must stay ahead of the scar tissue. Our bodies after the repair are stronger than we think. The inflammatory response becomes less and less. There is a difference between a dull ache and pain. I know my muscles are awakening but the increase in strength is dramatic. If i only went in the pool every 3rd day i would have only been once and I would not have made the gains. I think the biggest gains are in the pool because we are weightless and the resistance is mild.
I am on the 3 week program....I have no idea why because although I am muscularly built I am out of shape. I have a gut....not huge but a 38" waist. 5'10" and 240is....usually 5'10" 210 ish with a 34" waist...Looking to get to about 185 eventually. I really think i should be on the 6 week plan but Meyers liked my approach and said to keep on keeping on and call him in 2 weeks.
At the 4 week mark i plan on doing the Core X program.
I remember reading one gentlemans post and I am similar to him. I do not need to hear all the technical/science terms. A basic laymans to how and why and can you help me is all i need....Ultimately YOU MUST TRUST your surgeon implicitly or this will not work.
Also in regards to your fascia what you are saying may or may not be true. You may have a muscle imbalance that led up to this. It may be the beginning because rest or not the body will be forced to comensate and with compensation comes injury to other parts of your body.
Why do people play everyday? Any number of things....love, stress relief, competition, keep in shape, etc....but athletes whether paid or not.....play...thats what we do....The why's are not important. Just that we do.
As far as it being a complex disease....hmmm....I do not think it is a disease but an injury. Also Meyers has it down to 18 veriations with over 120+ repair combinations so i suppose it is complex. However, i think the mechanism of AP is quite simple....if that is truly what you have. The complication arises with diagnosis and is this THE PAIN GENERATOR or is it most of the generator and the hips a little too....or is your core now weak causing a anterior tilted pelvis.....That is the key..The CORRECT DIAGNOSIS...because the mechanism of it is really quite simple. Even a rockhead like me has grasped it.
Now the rehab...that is a whole other animal. I have yet to meet anyone who said there were not ups and downs and it tested them emotionally. In fact I think meyers expects this because when i called it was almost like he expects it.He started off with a pool joke and then reassures you and then tells you that it is EARLY and you are doing fine....Walk everyday and let pain be your guide. Loosen the scar tissue....massage adductors.....start to stretch quads, hammys, hips, etc.....I did that today for the first time and my low back loosened right up.
So i suppose until you get a firm diagnosis and a POA there are just going to be endless questions for you....I really do not know how to do that. When I have a situation I NEED TO KNOW....Guessing and self-diagnosis is not only not smart,but will eat you up. (it did me....but deep in my gut i knew i had it even though i was in CRAZY DENIAL)....
Off to stretch and then bed
Did you read my response to you, about 10 posts above this one?
First, keep in mind I'm not a doctor, have no medical credentials at all. It's my understanding that if you have an inguinal hernia you probably DO want to get it surgically repaired, but only by a doctor that has done a lot of them.
On the other hand, some argue that you can promote self-healing, as this site suggests:
If I were financially secure and in your position, I would at least consider going to Dr. Muschaweck in Munich, Germany. Her clinic specializes in hernias, including both inguinal hernias and sports hernias.
I'm guessing there are a few doctors around Melbourne, Australia who specialize in hernias. It's my understanding that inguinal hernias are very, very common. Best of all, when it's fixed right, you can put it behind you.
But take everything I say with a grain of salt. I may be missing something in my thinking.
Albert Einstein said that every individual gains much more from society than he can ever possibly contribute. The books in the library hold the experiences of our ancestors. The roads and buildings of our cities, built by the labor of generations now dead. But we get to live in them and use them.
It's the collective intellect that is greater than any one intellect, no matter how great the individual.
It seems to me that these forums are a way of harnessing a collective intellect of sports hernia sufferers that's greater than any individual intellect can possibly be. Consider each contributor to this enormous thread. Each and every one of them is highly intelligent in one way or another.
When hundreds of bright, diverse minds are focused on a problem, they can achieve insights beyond even the smartest individual, but only if the mode of collaboration is one of critical thinking where everything is open to question.
Once ideas start being accepted as dogma, science and critical thinking evaporate.
When I ask the question, If weight lifters don't work the same muscle group every day, why do sports hernia rehabbers do it?, I'm doing it because the question naturally popped into my head, not because I want to give anybody a hard time.
If I were in your shoes, I would certainly have gone to Dr. Meyers for the operation. Perhaps the every-day pushing of the muscles is the best way.
But it simply clashes with my earlier experience where, even after my abdominal tear, I simply avoided situps, and I blissfully played basketball once or twice a week with no problems at all. A little soreness the morning after, no big deal at all. Then, I started playing almost every day for a while, and, boom, all of the sudden realized something was very, very wrong.
I don't understand sports hernia at all. It's a mystery to me. And as can be seen by that article, it's a mystery to the whole world.
I only wish we had a more powerful forum where we could attract the ball players in the above article to participate. Their experiences and observations would be of great value to you, to me, to everybody.
Your experiences, Albert, have been very valuable to me and I'm sure many others, and I'm grateful to you for sharing them. I think you've beaten sports hernia now, to where you can live a normal life.
That's all I'm hoping to do, just lead a normal life. If we had more participants, more questioners in this forum, we could advance our knowledge more quickly, it seems to me.
Ultimately you know your body better than anyone else in terms of how it heals. I am a hard charger and that was my undoing with this injury, however i think it will benefit me in my rehab because i will do whatever it takes to get my core strong again. Today is day 13 and I have employed my first stretching regimen including Mike Boyles...which i could never ever do prior to surgery. i even stretched my groin....I talked to meyers and he gave me the green light.
Says my only limitations are no weights with quick movements (i am doing no weights anymore anyways since i am too bulky)...I am built very much like Mike Tyson but with thicker legs.
The other no-no at this point is situps. All else he says i can do. I am going to be doing my Egoscue workout which is based on Pete Egoscue and the whole body as a unit.
I am also seeking out a functional movement therapist trained by cook at week 4.
My goals now are to drop 40 pounds and get to 200 pounds and 34" waist. Also to tighten up my core and add the stability i need and to seek balance to my body.
The article you posted is from a receiver like i said. Probably the worst position to play as a AP sufferer. The quick stops.....pivots....stop and goes....amd the turf giving way underneath you.
I agree in collective discussion but that can be skewed on a forum because the bulk of the contributors are sufferers or those who bounced back slowly. I may be in the latter group and it is too early to tell (i am sore at days end....my feet...lower legs....and glutes....) this is from being out of place for so long.
I really think you should concentrate on the positive too. All this negative information will be programmed in your mind if you decide to have surgery.
Today is a great day so far. I have incision tenderness but no groin pain and none of that lower ab pressure (like there is a balloon in there)....
It does not hurt to get out of a low car (i have a Acura TL)
It does not hurt to get out of bed. It does not hurt to go upstairs. And most of all my testicle does not kill me all the time.
My legs are loosening each day. The key for me so far has been to use a dowel on my quads to lean on myu trigger points and then massage both adductors. This releases the hip flexors and psoas muscles....
Your good progress is excellent news.
I was rethinking my previous post. As I said last summer I discovered that when I did situps I could feel a pain in my lower abdomen at each rep. I therefore decided to avoid situps and then I forgot about it, mostly. I kept playing basketball once or twice a week for a few months, not even thinking about the abdomen, had no idea.
Then after I moved across town and started playing more than once or twice per week, I also did something else I forgot to mention. I was getting in such good shape, I decided to try situps again one day, out of the blue. I noticed that the pain at each rep was less. (In hindsight, I think my abdomen had apparently healed itself partially during the past 5 months while I was playing basketball once or twice per week.) So, like an idiot, I decided to do some more intense abs workout. I sat in a chair, suspended myself off the chair by my hands, and pulled my knees up to my chin sort of, over and over.
Shortly thereafter I did some tricep pull-downs at the gym, and with each rep I could feel the pain in my lower abdomen. Shortly after that, a day or two, I crashed with sports hernia.
So, I don't know which caused me the sports hernia syndrome -- the increased frequency of playing basketball (almost daily), or the increased tearing of my abdomen by the two abs sessions.
Your good progress gives hope to me.
Football is a different animlal wiht the hard hitting that goes on....those guys Id say came back too early to play.......For my I developed mine from Getting Broadsided in the outfield while playing softball.......I got hit so hard I was seeing stars.......the hit undid something and it wasnt until 2 weeks later while playing I felt the sharp pain/tear feeling in the lower ab/pubic bone area.....and of course I was overplaying...at least 4x on week nights and tournaments every weekend where we could play anywhere from 3-10 games on the weekends......then of course like Surf says I was so addicted to the sport I played right thru the pain as much as I could and only would take a break when I could barely walk...5 years of this destroyed my body into many dysfunctions......My only advice to anyone is if you think you have it get a Diagnosis ...the longer you let it go the more dysfunctional your body will become....take it from Albert and I ...we both have a lot of work to do to get our bodies out of the dysfunctions from being misdiagnosed for 5 years...the repair is just the first step in the process....healing and the rehab are on the patient ......Diet will also play a huge part into how you heal along with proper supplements
Greetings from Munchen Deutschland! I may be somewhat of a strange case as I flew to Munich previously undiagnosed. I consulted via phone and email with Dr. UMs staff. These consults, in combination w/ my own research and numerous negative findings on other tests provided me a high degree of certainty I had SH. I understand this approach my appear a bit cavalier for most, but my consult today confirmed my suspicions...
Today I met with Dr. UM and her staff im preparation for surgery tomorrow. I really find it unbelievable it took five minutes to diagnose what the plethera of doctors I visited prior couldn't identify over a year. For the skeptics, the ultrasound photographs and the SH push test done in the vicinity of your testicles will likely make you a believer. Both Dr. UM and her assistant were both able to identify weakness (you will feel it) in my lower abdominal wall with this test.
During my consult with Dr. UM's assistant, she drew a diagram describing a SH and why pain is associated with it. Unless Dr. UM and her staff 1. misdiagnosed me and thousands of others and/or 2. are completely incompetent, I don't see how this injury can heal itself regardless of the PT regiment.
Some pre-op experiences for those considering heading to Munich..
- Airfare wasn't bad at all. $750 round trip and if I wasn't a numb nuts i could have paid $500. Just don't wait until Wed to buy a ticket if you are heading out Sat! Long story.
- Dr. UM's staff at consult diagnostics/consult location in Munich are courteous, professional and competent. Everyone speaks very good english which was welcome because mein deutsch ist scheiss!!!
- At the conclusion of the consult, if it is determined you have a SH, you'll be asked to kick out the $4600 euro deposit which cost me approx $6250 w/ todays conversion. According to my provider, I'll be reimbursed 85% (not sure if they will include the housing) which equates to $5300 roughly not including housing.
- Prescribed meds will run you approx 60 euro. There is a drug store right beneath the clinic.
- The 35k (20m roughly) drive from Munich to Starnburg (surgery location) took nearly 45 mins and wasn't easy. A German friend drove me and without a GPS we were hopeless. A cab is likely your best bet, though I'm sure it will be pricey.
- The guest accomidations are top notch. You are required to stay only one night in the guest house (night before) and it will run you 200 euro (todays conversion is $1.36 to 1 euro). I was just brought dinner which looks like uncooked bacon and fruit slices. Looks like I won't be relying on the local fare for grub. You may want to hit up the Italianisch Pizzeria across the street which is fantastic.
- On the evening prior to surgery, Dr. UM will meet w/ you at her office in the guesthouse. During this consult, I asked Dr. UM about recovery and she suggested I can jog w/in 3 days, moderate exertion w/in 5-7 days, and full activity after 8 days. The last few pages on this thread have had some good debate concerning surgery recovery. My two cents is athletes have to push through pain to some degree because of the way the body heals after traumatic injury aka surgery. Thick scar tissue will form which can hinder performance will form if measures (athletic activity) aren't taken to prevent it.
I'm in pretty good shape, but far from a professional athlete. I'm interested to see how my body recovers from this procedure.
More info to come.
If I get surgery and recover, I've resolved to end forever my addiction of playing sports every day. If I can live normally, maybe hiking occasionally, a jog here and there, mowing the yard, a short swim here or there, most days just walking around like normal people do, I'll be very, very happy.
When is your surgery scheduled?
What were your main symptoms that prompted you to seek surgery? How long ago did you first know something was wrong?
Thanks for your information about traveling/utilizing Dr. Muschaweck's clinic. Wishing you a speedy recovery.
Mello - great post. I'll be there in 3 weeks. Good luck to you!
Mike in Va (soon in Munich)
First noticed symptoms in Junish last year. I played in a soccer tournament, was fine after, but woke up w/ a dull aching pain in my lower ab/left testicle region. I played through the pain for months, but the aching pain prevented me from running anywhere near full speed. Clear as day, I remember when I knew something was seriously wrong.. I exploded for a head ball in an indoor game and all of a sudden it felt like my groin ripped from my ab wall.. Anyway, from there its thesame story as most.. Diagnosis of a pulled groin.. rest.. PT.. ibuprofin.. and no recovery.. When I began losing faith in the diagnosis of my docs some 6 months later, I began researching the symptoms of my injury.. My end result.. of which this message board played a factor.. Surgery in Munich...
Like you.. I plan on posting post op results. Please feel free to hit me up if you have any questions.. I plan on a post op post (hehe) manana w/ the particulars of the procedure.
There is a college baseball player here who has the same story as most of us.. Misdiagnosis and his own research led him here. He is having surgery on both sides.. Today he had his left side completed and tomorrow his right.. Minimally invasive maybe, but let me assure you, judging from him, there is apparent significant post op pain associated w/ the technique. To be honest, I don't care. Not being able to compete at a level I know I can has been one of the most painful experiences of my life both physically and mentally and I don't feel I've overstated my position.
For you athletic types, of which most of us are, the walls and walls and walls of world wide professional athletes w/ signed thank you photos will provide that positive pre op motivation you need to know you are doing the right thing.
You are in great hands and will get a great result. Those signed photos are testimony enough. She saved those guys careers.
I would have considered the Germany thing but i had such and injury to 2 of my adductors where they were calcified and loaded with fibrosis.
Post surgery pain is well controlled. I had a open scar of 4-5" and I tried to deny the pain injection. It was short acting for 3 hours and I refused pain meds and walked to my hotel. My only mistake was not filling my percocet prescription because the first night i had trouble moving and when my phone rang at 6 a.m. i jumped and my 1st movement was painful.
I am 13 days out and I am doing wonderful. I am too out of shape to run so i will not even attempt it for a month or two. I have jogged 50 yds twicw with no problem. Just aching at the end of the day and my adductors shake like crazy after standing a long time. Meyers said they have not been working for 4.5 years so they are relearning. Told me the length of time is more of an indicator of healing time than severity of tear.
Good luck and I am anxious to hear of your success. Hopefully you brought your picture to sign for the wall.
Morgen leute! Surgery is now a thing of the past and for the first time in almost a year I can lift my left leg w/o my left testicle feeling like its being sucked up into my gut. As of right now, one hour post surgery I feel great. I'm walking around pain free though lets see how I feel once the meds wear off.
The procedure: At 0700 a nurse came to my room, provided me with a shot of herapin for anti-thrombosis prophylaxis (???) and shaved my pubic area and upper stomach. At 0720 I was escorted to the operating area where additional diagnostics were taken and I was hooked up to an IV. At 0750 I was moved to the operating room. At 0810, Dr. UM arrived, assured me I was in good hands and she began applying the local anesthetic which to my surprise was pain free after looking at the syringes.. Yeah, I hate needles. Next, the anesthesiologist told me to have a good sleep.. I'm sure I slobbered out something to her, but my next half lucid memory was being advised the procedure was complete. I think I remember asking if they removed the nerve and was told yes, but I was still half wacked at that point. I was taken to a holding area to regain my senses at 0930. At 0950 I was taken back to my room, helped off the gurney and provided breakfast. My next appt w/ the nurse is at 1300 for more pain medication which is provided via IV. I'll meet w/ Dr. UM this evening to discuss the procedure and ask questions.
As for the scar.. Probably won't even look at it until tomorrow when I've been advised I can shower.
Heading out for a walk to test the leg out and then ice treatment. Cheers all and I'll keep you posted.
Amazing Mello. You are now officially on the way back to the playing field. I take it they have Internet in the rooms? Wired or wireless. I'm so ready to be done with this SH. Dr UM is a god send.
Mike in Va
Many thanks for the very informative post op post.
Wireless in the rooms.. Thank goodness!!!
Went for a walk today and other than some tightness and soreness from the surgery.. Felt good. As the meds are wearing off, there is pain in the area which Dr. UM attributes to the local anesthetic used prior to surgery. I was advised a portion of the nerve affecting the area was removed though the main nerve was preserved. She further advised the surgery consisted of repairing a 2cm tear petruded by a 2cm bulge. The tear was repaired by overlapping both sides of the tear and stiching them together. There is a bit of numbness remaining which extends from my lower abs on the left side to the inner thigh. I was advised this is normal and the sensation should return w/in a few days to a few weeks. All the essential elements have full feeling and are in tact ;)
As for rehab.. Today (Wed Mar 20) is day 0 and on day 2-3 (Fri/Sat 22-23 Mar) I can begin jogging and light sprinting. by day 6-10, depending on how I feel, I can resume full activity. As stated earlier, I'm very interested to see how my body recovers.
FYI.. Its official.. After three meals I've concluded the food here sucks so plan accordingly. More to come.. Ciao.
I have heard that many with positive outcomes from SH surgery have not posted, so I thought I would put in my experience.
Began suffering SH symptoms in October last year. Although I have always been very active, it may have been due to taking up tennis at a late age (48), Crossfit-type exercises, or a minor auto accident around the same time - who knows. Mild groin pain increased to stabbing pain during any acceleration movement, any type of lunge-based move was very painful and later could not run at all or even go up a hill walking without pain. Hip adduction was never a major problem, though. After discussing with a neighbor, a retired pro soccer player, I sought surgical consultation with from the same surgeon who did his SH repair several years earlier. (MRI was negative) No, it was not one of the "famous" surgeons discussed on this board, but rather a highly competent minimially-invasive surgeon. He had done "dozens" of SH repairs, but thousands of IH and other repairs. He was quite confident that he could help me.
Had the surgery on April 15. Laparascopic, Bilateral, tension-free mesh repair + the excision of several calcified/fatty deposits around the inguinal nerve. I have taken a gradual rehab approach, using alot of info discussed here on recent advances in core training etc. Now just hit week 5 - am able to run and accelerate pain-free for the first time in 6-7 months. Playing doubles tennis with no problems, gradually increasing my strength training to about 60-75% of pre-op (but holding out certain exercises such as pullups for another week or so). I can do the elliptical, cycle, jog pretty much pain free. Walking up hills, getting out of bed also much improved. Full golf swings almost ready. My only issues were really related to recovering from catheterization and some spermatic cord inflamation, which is mostly resolved now.
Granted, my injury was not as serious as many have reported here. But, I am very happy with the results and glad that I did not wait to have the surgery with the potential for further injury/scar tissue build up.
Glad to answer any questions
SH in SC -
Thanks for sharing your experience, which is very helpful to me. Did the doctor formally classify your injury type, i.e., as sports hernia vs. inguinal hernia?
Sounds like you've make good progress for only 5 weeks. It must be a good feeling. Hoping for a speedy full recovery for you.