Johnny thanks so much for your help, i am glad to hear you are doing better. I was wondering if you ever heard of biofeedback? its a type of therapy for the pelvic floor.
I have an appointment for a surgery with meyers on the 9th and a surgery to see dr muschaweck on the 3 i still can't make a decision. Anything else you can say to make it easier for me to decide?
Anyone ever had a "Sports Hernia" aka: "Sportsman's hernia", "Gilmore's groin", or "
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yes i have heard of biofeedback for the pf. if you have pf pain it might be caused by both the sports hernia or muscle (esp hip) imbalance, or both. keep in mind that the transverse ab works in conjunction with the pf. the transverse is torn in the sports hernia. so, if the transverse is compromised then usually the pf will be as well. when one tightens so does the other.
i chose dr um over the other options because of a combo of experience and the price. -
Sher,
I was very tender for about three weeks and then I started a walking program for about an hour a day. Really, really slow for a while. The first couple weeks I couldn't get across the street before the light changed. By three months I started running again. At two months I was able to bike pretty hard, but biking stresses the groin very little. Basically the groin is really tight and as you increase exercise, particularly hip extension and low back extension you will be putting strain on the surgery site, breaking up tight scar tissue, and it results in soreness. That is why for the first 6 months I wasn't sure if it worked. Every time I did something new, or gained a tiny bit of range fo motion, I was sore the next day. I was constantly worried that I damaged the work of Dr. Meyers but it was invariably just soreness from breaking up scar tissue.
So if you have the same procedure as me (repair of floor and and release on one side)I would estimate several weeks before you can be back to work as a flight attendant and quite a while for the aerobics. All of it will involve soreness while increasing workload. It's a really hard call, though, because everyone's damage and surgery is unique. I took my time and didn't try to push it. I mostly followed his schedule but have heard of people going much faster and much slower. When I started running at exactly 3 months I began with 1/4 mile and increased up to three miles continuously over about a 6 weeks with calisthenics as prescribed by Meyers. All involved soreness.
But over time it'll get better. You need to accept that it'll be slow, and filled with doubt and soreness for spell. After two weeks there is no pain at rest but activity will bring soreness for a long time.
Sorry for rambling so much. I guess you need to consider the restricted ROM for the first few months and gauge how much ROM you need for your job. Talk to the good doc Meyers, he'll give you a much better idea based on the extent of your injury and the procedure he will do. -
RD,
My first symptoms didn't occur until Christmas 2006 so I wasn't ready to rush into anything. Plus, my wife just had our third child so I wanted to make sure all was well at home before heading under the knife. This is my first surgery and I'm definitely worried that I'm doing the right thing. What I know is that I cannot run without pain. That is a significant downer. I am able to cross train on the bike and the elliptical but I'm going out of my mind from boredom. Lately, it's been bothering me while I walk. It certainly doesn't prevent me from walking but it's a constant presence, a mild discomfort. I suppose in some ways that's a sign that the surgery is the right answer. Meyers told me I was a perfect candidate given my MRI and that I need the adductor release too. That part really worries me. I don't like cutting my adductors. I worry about long term consequences of that. So I'm grappling with it alot. Do you know of any other resources to research this?
RB -
runninbud wrote:
RD,
My first symptoms didn't occur until Christmas 2006 so I wasn't ready to rush into anything. Plus, my wife just had our third child so I wanted to make sure all was well at home before heading under the knife. This is my first surgery and I'm definitely worried that I'm doing the right thing. What I know is that I cannot run without pain. That is a significant downer. I am able to cross train on the bike and the elliptical but I'm going out of my mind from boredom. Lately, it's been bothering me while I walk. It certainly doesn't prevent me from walking but it's a constant presence, a mild discomfort. I suppose in some ways that's a sign that the surgery is the right answer. Meyers told me I was a perfect candidate given my MRI and that I need the adductor release too. That part really worries me. I don't like cutting my adductors. I worry about long term consequences of that. So I'm grappling with it alot. Do you know of any other resources to research this?
RB
OK. So it was your decision to wait until June. Got it. I thought it suddenly took a really long time to schedule surgery with Meyers.
I can't really help you with the long term implications for an adductor release, as I didn't have the procedure. And what do you mean by long term? I'm 42, so the way I look at it is this: I clearly could not continue running in the state I was in by Jan 2007. Now I'm running again, and if Meyers bought me even 3-5 years of running it was worth it to me. I'm sure something else will go wrong by my late 40s, as running is simply brutal on the body when doen in relatively high volume and high intensity.
I know someday I'll have to give it up. But, thanks to Bill Meyers that did not come at 42.
I wouldn't worry too much about long term implications. If you can afford the procedure and it's important to you to get back into running, it's worth it. -
i am scheduled for the surgery in May with Meyers but still am debating if to go see the German doctor. I heard that the adductor release is not the best thing to do. I also need to do the adductor release but for some reason i am not too kean about it. I might see the German doctor before i get my rectus abdominal fixed plus my adductor release.
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JPL wrote:
Sher,
I was very tender for about three weeks and then I started a walking program for about an hour a day. Really, really slow for a while. The first couple weeks I couldn't get across the street before the light changed. By three months I started running again. At two months I was able to bike pretty hard, but biking stresses the groin very little. Basically the groin is really tight and as you increase exercise, particularly hip extension and low back extension you will be putting strain on the surgery site, breaking up tight scar tissue, and it results in soreness. That is why for the first 6 months I wasn't sure if it worked. Every time I did something new, or gained a tiny bit of range fo motion, I was sore the next day. I was constantly worried that I damaged the work of Dr. Meyers but it was invariably just soreness from breaking up scar tissue.
So if you have the same procedure as me (repair of floor and and release on one side)I would estimate several weeks before you can be back to work as a flight attendant and quite a while for the aerobics. All of it will involve soreness while increasing workload. It's a really hard call, though, because everyone's damage and surgery is unique. I took my time and didn't try to push it. I mostly followed his schedule but have heard of people going much faster and much slower. When I started running at exactly 3 months I began with 1/4 mile and increased up to three miles continuously over about a 6 weeks with calisthenics as prescribed by Meyers. All involved soreness.
But over time it'll get better. You need to accept that it'll be slow, and filled with doubt and soreness for spell. After two weeks there is no pain at rest but activity will bring soreness for a long time.
Sorry for rambling so much. I guess you need to consider the restricted ROM for the first few months and gauge how much ROM you need for your job. Talk to the good doc Meyers, he'll give you a much better idea based on the extent of your injury and the procedure he will do.
JPL, how long did it take before you were 100%? Also, was there a period of time where you were 80-90% and then plateaued(sp)for a few months? -
iPeted wrote:
JPL, how long did it take before you were 100%? Also, was there a period of time where you were 80-90% and then plateaued(sp)for a few months?
iPeted,
I was 100% in about a year. But I was 80-90% in 6 months. So there was slow return to 100% but I mentally knew I'd get there after 6 months out from surgery. Those first 6 months were hard mentally from the constant soreness after each increase in workload. I was contstantly worried that I wasn't going to get to 100% or that I was re-injuring myself. As it turned out I was just adapting in fits and starts. -
RunDaddy, I just had my consultation with Dr. Meyers yesterday (scheduled for 3:45 and sat around until 7:45 I might add!). However, I have confidence that I'm in good hands.
I'm replying to you because your case seems to be similar to mine. No adductor release needed, been going on only for a short number of months, very fit otherwise, etc.
It seems like you're grateful you had the surgery. Any further improvement in the week since you made this post?
I'm 41 and previous to the injury/condition/whatever I was extremely active (ice hockey, football, relatively intense training, very taxing and twisting repetitive movements). My biggest question is whether I will be able to return (at any time) to what I did before. Dr. Meyers says ninety something percent yes. I'm just wondering about your further experience.
Thx,
WILL -
It sounds like alot of you are in the same boat as me, dealing with this crazy injury. I saw Dr. Meyers last week, and I'm one of the few who he didn't recommend surgery for. My symptoms are totally classic-I can't run or play soccer without paying for it for days, but I can bike with no problems. I'm 55, which may be why he took a conservative approach with me. What he prescribed was a heavy duty anti-inflamatory for six weeks, combined with an excercise regime designed for the MLS soccer players, and a gradual return to activity to see what I can tolerate. It's been a week,and I do feel a bit better. In late February, after six weeks of rest, a 1 1/2 mile run put me in pain for days. I then rested another 6 weeks, and started back very, very slowly last week. Yesterday I was up to go about three miles and I am not in pain today. I go back to see him in late June, at which time he'll do another MRI because he caouldn't clearly see the insertion of the abdominus rectus, which I guess is the usual problem area.
By then I'll have been off the anti inflamatory for several weeks, and should be able to see if I'm improving. My bottom line is that I can give up soccer and cut back on my running, but I couldn't even hike any significant distance this winter, and that means that most recreational stuff (Kayaking, windsurfing, x-country skiing) are all risky, and that's not acceptable. Also, I build custonm houses for a living, and stiull need to use my body quite a bit. Like alot of you, though, the adductor release scares me. I'll keep you all posted on how I do without surgery, if you all keep letting us know how you are doing with it.
Jeff -
Hey johnny, I don't know if i asked you this question already, if i did then ignore. Did you also have a problem with you adductor, and did the problem go away by itself even without the adductor release? I spoke to the German Doctor and she doesn't do the adductor release so i was wondering if it really releases by itself.
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jeff, i was wondering why does the adductor release scare so many people at this thread, what do you think is the reason people are scared to get this adductor release?
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sher,
What I don't know about the adductor release is if Meyers only recommends it for people who have adductor pain, or if he does it to relieve the opposing stress on the abdominus rectus connection to the pubic bone. Anybody out there know? The release scares me because it is messing with some fundamentally sound muscles, because the German doc doesn't do it, and because somebody on this thread at some point in the past felt that the whole procedure changed their gait enough that all kinds of other back and knee problems surfaced.
My hope in general is that the people who continue to post on this thread are mostly those with problems, and that those who healed well, either with or wothout surgery, have gone on their merry way. I am actually feeling quite a bit better, but I don't know if that is just because of the anti inflamatory medication, or if I am really improving. I believe it was Run Daddy who posted that Meyers said true AP will not heal on it's own, but when I brought that up, he said it was not necessarily true. I am increasing my mileage very slowly since I started running again 12 days ago, but this weekend I ran almost four miles two days in a row, and I still feel OK. That's the most I've tried in many months. My slim hope is that the medication allows me to do the exercises, and that they, in turn are strengthening the abdomen to the point that I will have little pain when I go off it. Even when I have a some pain, I now feel stronger. Who knows. I guess I'll know in a couple on months.
Jeff -
sher,
dr um doesn't do adductor releases since she says that the sh injury causes nerve pain that creates adductor pain. she thinks all sport herniacs have adductor pain. she tries to be as minimally invasive as possible. i think she feels that adductor releases are unecessary damage.
but i don't have any real answers. i am still suffering over 9 months out. i am getting better but stil in pain. i get nerve block injections in a month and a half. but i also developed an issue with my left si joint during the whole period of the injury going from bad to untolerable. a displaced si joint can cause serious pain. so i am battling two things, but i think that the si problem is making the sh nerve pains much worse than they are.
**JPL*** i am very intersted in hearing in how you recoverd, as far as your pains increasing after activities. if you can please email me, i'd like to ask you a few questions re your setbacks as you healed. thanks a lot, johnny -
willg wrote:
RunDaddy, I just had my consultation with Dr. Meyers yesterday (scheduled for 3:45 and sat around until 7:45 I might add!). However, I have confidence that I'm in good hands.
I'm replying to you because your case seems to be similar to mine. No adductor release needed, been going on only for a short number of months, very fit otherwise, etc.
It seems like you're grateful you had the surgery. Any further improvement in the week since you made this post?
I'm 41 and previous to the injury/condition/whatever I was extremely active (ice hockey, football, relatively intense training, very taxing and twisting repetitive movements). My biggest question is whether I will be able to return (at any time) to what I did before. Dr. Meyers says ninety something percent yes. I'm just wondering about your further experience.
Thx,
WILL
Will, sorry I missed this post. I'm in Tunisia at the moment. On the surgery, bottom line is I feel great. Only running about 35 mpw (11 weeks out), but have no pain. It gets a little sore if I do a hard swim. And if I do leg raises or sit ups, it starts to bother after a bit. But nothing serious, and it's getting better each week.
Good luck.
RD -
Johnny, I also have a problem with the left s.i. joint and had some work done on that. Steroids in your s.i. joint will really help. Do you still think that your surgery was a success although you are still in pain?
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hi all
somebody mentioned that most people posting are those who think they have SH or are still suffering post-surgery. i thought i'd chime in with a success story.
i had surgery on the left side with dr. muschaweck in munich for sportsman's groin (her name for it) exactly two months ago. she performed her "minimally invasive" technique, and i was up and walking about on day 2, and jogging on day 14.
however, my original problems lingered, i.e. sharp pain when doing certain movements (like sharp cutting playing soccer), or pain when i squeezed my legs together, or soreness the day after exercise. although not as bad as pre-surgery, these problems were still there at six weeks, and there were times when i seriously doubted the effectiveness of the surgery.
week 7 i began working out in the water. the first day i tried swimming both breast stroke and freestyle but had pain in the left groin for both from the sharp kicking motions. i also ran in the water to work out the muscles but not put stress on the body. i was disappointed that i was experiencing pain while swimming, but decided to keep going with it.
a few days into it suddenly the pain dramatically subsided. i increased the swimming and water jogging, and a week into it i was feeling strong and the most pain free i had been since late november, which is when my SH really blew up. needless to say this was very exciting.
this last weekend i played in a saturday-sunday soccer tournament, 3 games each 1 hour long each day. this was to be my first real test since surgery, and i was excited because i felt i had turned a corner with the swimming and etc., but still very nervous because there was still some slight lingering discomfort and i didnt want to push it too soon and regress.
the short of it is the groin held up, no problems whatsover, not once during the six grueling games. the sharp pain from cutting or jumping was gone. no limitation. and, whereas before i would be sore for a few days even after playing just a bit of soccer, i am thrilled to report that i have almost no soreness now, two days after the tournament.
i don't know if it was the swimming that helped me turn the corner, or if i just needed that much time to recover post surgery and would have turned the corner without swimming. i don't even know for sure that the surgery actually worked -- maybe my body healed itself, and it just needed this much time. there's really no way of knowing.
what i do know is that 2 months post-surgery and 5 months post-injury, i am 95% back in action, the remaining 5% being ever so slight discomfort when i squeeze my legs, and just because i feel like it would inviting bad luck to claim 100%. and i also feel strongly that without dr. M's surgery i would now be where i am today. that is just my gut feeling, so to speak.
it has been super long and tough (and expensive) road to recovery. if you have any questions feel free to email me at yleeper at hotmail -- i'm happy to help where i can. please write "sports hernia" in the subject line.
best of luck to you all.
also, one thing about meyers vs. muschaweck, i did not want the abductor release and that was one reason i went to munich. the other is it was far cheaper (my insurance wouldn't cover surgery with meyers). dr. muschawecks whole thing is trying to minimize the damage during surgery, and the abductor release seems like a whole lot of damage, and i personally didnt want that. but, i'm sure the abductor release is necessary for some people. my advice would be do everything you can to make sure you need it before getting it. that goes for surgery with anyone, i suppose. -
osaru, I am happy to know things are working good for you. Do you think you would have recovered without the surgery? I am still debating if to go with Dr Muschawek or Meyers and time is running out and i have to make a decision. I also am a little against the adductor release, but i guess people do it, who knows what effect it has later on in life. Dr Muschawek also doesn't go into the pelvic floor muscles like Meyers does. I really don't know which surgery is more effective. I have had this injury for almost 2 years and i just have to, HAVE TO, get it fixed.
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sher-
like i said it's impossible to say, but my gut feeling (yes, this is a bad play on words) is that i would not be where i am now, which is very close to full recovery, had i had not gone to munich to have surgery.
once you decide to have surgery it is definitely a tough decision about who to have it with. you now have the same amount of info if not more than most people who make the decision, so all you can do is trust your instincts and commit. for me the decision was made easier by the factors that 1. i did not want the abductor release and 2. i really couldn't afford surgery with meyers anyway.
if you are convinced you have a sports hernia, and you've had it for two years and it hasn't gone away, you're right, you need surgery, and the sooner the better. good luck with your decision. -
two posts ago i wrote "and i also feel strongly that without dr. M's surgery i would now be where i am today".
what i meant to say was i would NOT be where i am today.
sorry for the confusion.
