I've also been taking fish oil (omega 3 fatty acids). Reportedly, fish oil is a type of natural anti-inflammatory. I take it anyway, but I increased it after surgery.
Anyone ever had a "Sports Hernia" aka: "Sportsman's hernia", "Gilmore's groin", or "
I've also been taking fish oil (omega 3 fatty acids). Reportedly, fish oil is a type of natural anti-inflammatory. I take it anyway, but I increased it after surgery.
I am at 3.5 weeks and today I am having an awesome pain free day (well except my plantar fasciatis).
I really think the excercises are paying off...all with 2.5 pound weight on cable...adduction/abduction, extension/flexion, 3 sets of squats, stretching.
Also i am in the pool every other day and doing running and side shuffling.
End of day i am sore but much much better. No leg pressure at all (that was my worst symptom), no testicle pain, mild adductor weakness/pain, minimal AP pain, incision tightness.
Today is my best day yet and I feel I will be out of the woods by week 8. I have also dropped 13 pounds since surgery and my goal is 40 which will be no problem. I am an ex-boxer and I trained guys how to lose for fights....
My dog's name was Shelby and she was a 14 yr old Weimeraner. She was my best friend and it was the hardest thing to do (put her down). She had cushings disease and she lost the ability to hold he urine. Needed to go out hourly and she was bloated and getting weaker. She was suffering and panting all the time. She was a beauty and a great athlete and the gentlest soul. I will miss her.
when are you getting examined. I talked to JC and he is getting excited for his July 15th surgery. It was JC who suggested I had this and i owe him more than I can ever repay. I had no life before and now i can not wait until July when I am close to 100%.
Even my lumbar pains are gone.
That's great man! I hope you keep getting better and better.
Your excellent progress is great news. It makes my day just hearing it, gives me hope.
I hope to see Dr. Muschaweck when she visits Colorado in July. The date isn't known yet.
Weimeraners are beautiful dogs. Sounds like she lived a good life.
By the way Albert, it's very good of you to provide your situation updates so well to this message board. It really helps all of us a lot.
Yes Im following Albert closely and we talk quite a bit.......since our situations are pretty similar as far as areas of tears and time with the injury (5 Years) ......each weekly progress he makes gives me confidence for myself....because theres so many ups and downs that go on inside your mind both pre and post surgery we all need eachother to get us thru this injury
Mike in Va wrote:
Not a problem at all Mike. You're on the way to recovery. Do the core work and lay off the weights until you get fixed up. One thing Albert and JC will tell you is that you don't want to make this problem any worse than it already is. The balance in the pelvic region is very easily skewed and the problem can spread to other areas quickly as they compensate for the tear in your lower abdomen. Dr.Muschaweck coming to your home state in the next 8 weeks is a big bonus for you. Take advantage of it and nip this problem in the bud quickly.
Mike in Va.
Mike in Va.
Thanks for the encouragement. I am really looking forward to Dr. Muschaweck coming to Denver. I am very anxious, and nervous. I realize she is one of the better doctors out there, but I am concerned with what her findings will be. The pain I am experiencing is something I have never felt before in my life. It restricts my movements, and my abilities in everyday life so much that I wonder if you all experienced the same symptoms.
I have a couple questions for you who have been diagnosed and/or had the surgeries. Have you or are you experiencing any of the following symptoms I am feeling?
1. I noticed the inability to kneel on my knees and do anything in front of me. I feel like I will fall forward on my face, since I have no strength in my lower abs.
2. Fatigue. I can usually work for about 3 hours before I feel fatigued. I also am extremely tired and worn out every night. I feel like this injury really saps my energy.
3. When walking, I notice an almost involuntary tightening of my abs to compensate for the pain in the lower abs/groin. If I try to stop the tightening of the abs, the pain increases in the lower abs/groin area.
4. Even though the pain subsides when sitting or even relaxing lying down, there seems to be a constant tension in the groin/lower ab area. This seems to be the source of the fatigue that saps me everyday.
I would appreciate any comments you all have about these symptoms. In a way I hope they are something you all have had to deal with so I know that I'm not experiencing something that is so foreign that even the GP's who examined me couldn't find it.
Thanks again all of you for your opinions.
Mike in Denver
Our Common Denominators
My main sport is pickup basketball. Most of the players are in their 20's and 30's. I'm 58 yrs-old and have been doing it about 25 years now.
I've played with thousands of players, and many of them play a lot. Yet very few get sports hernia. It makes me think, why did I get sports hernia, while most never do? There must be a reason.
I think this same question can be asked about everybody in this message board. The vast majority of other players in our respective sports don't get sports hernia, ever. Why us? There must be a reason.
Is there something special or unusual factor or group of factors that we all share, that is different from the average? I think the answer is almost certainly yes. But discovering it is impractical when most of us are so reticent.
Here are a few things about me that are slightly off-average, I think:
Sweet tooth - Almost every day I have something sweet like a candy bar, or apple pie, or a chocolate chip cookie at Starbuck. I also usually have a Diet Coke every day. (Aspartame, I think.)
Butt sticks out - It you look at anyone over the age of about 70 years their butt is almost always tucked in (posterior pelvic tilt) because their backbone is deteriorating. Compared to the average person, my butt sticks out slightly more than average. (I have an anterior pelvic tilt.) My abs are in decent shape.
Runs on toes - My wind is much better than the average person, but I'm not such a good long distance runner because I don't set my foot down well, but rather tend to run on the balls of my feet (toes). This works fine for basketball and short runs. I have been nagged by a tight right hamstring for about 10 years, probably related.
Very little alcohol - Many of my friends have at least one or two beers or drinks every single day. It's part of their life and diet, and they're healthy. I often go a month or two without any alcohol. I'm wondering if other members of this message board tend to be non-drinkers or drinkers.
Knock-kneed - One of my brothers who is a superb athlete is not quite bow-legged. Whereas I'm slightly knock-kneed.
Afternoon energy - Some people like to exercise in mornings. For me, when the sun reaches about 5pm, I'm bursting with tension and energy, and have a need to do something physical. I sometimes wonder if the tendons of morning exercisers get worked early in the day. Do we have morning exercise people here in this message board, or afternoon exercisers?
Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.
Great post. It's good to try to find those common denominators.
As you know, I too primarily play pickup basketball. Have for 35+ years. Used to play pretty competitively in my 20's and 30's. Just for fun now.
I don't have a sweet tooth. I prefer salty/oily snacks, chips, popcorn etc.
I do believe my butt sticks out more than it used to.
I tend to run on the heels first and then roll to the toes. I alway thought this was the wrong way to run, that you should run on the balls of your feet.
I drink a couple beers almost daily. Probably why I like the salty snacks more than sweet. Although, sometimes I love an oatmeal cookie with my beer.
My legs are almost stick straight. My gait and running style show my toes pointed straight forward. I had braces on my legs when I was little and I think that is why I walk and run so straight.
I much prefer to work out in the early mornings. Later in the day I am usually beat. Mainly because I work physically all day and don't have the energy after working out in the morning too.
One thing I noticed about my overall physical shape is that I have always been unflexible. I am not limber at all. My groin and lower back have always been a problem for me. I've tried stretching, yoga, etc. with no real improvements. I did start to do some stretching exercises for my lower back that helped my sciatica, but they really didn't improve my flexibility.
The one thing I've noticed after looking at the Dr's notes and the posters notes is that the SH came gradually, not all the sudden like a pop. It's been hard for me to pinpoint when I started noticing the symptoms.
Mike in Denver
Mike in Denver,
You and I play the same game, basketball. While I used to work construction when I was younger, I now do computer programming stuff.
When I first got sports hernia about 5 months ago, I remember thinking that at least I wasn't doing construction work for a living anymore, because that would be impossible with sports hernia.
Exactly one month ago I moved home to Florida from Oregon where I was renting an apartment for work. Just boxing up my stuff and then unboxing it here in Florida set me way back. In addition to the sore groin I normally have, it gave me pain in my lower abdomen, and also prickly pains in backs of my legs.
After I finished unboxing here in Florida, it took about 6 days of no stooping, no lifting, no bending for the pain in my lower abdomen and the backs of my legs to finally settle down.
I brush my teeth at my kitchen sink (it's higher) so that I don't have to bend over as much. That helps. I'm careful getting out of my car to put my feet fairly close together to distribute my 170 lbs over two legs instead of one weak leg. That helps. Same for when I get up from my desk chair, or any chair. Whenever I get out of my car or up from any chair, I always look for something I can push with my arms to lighten the weight my legs/pelvis must lift. That really helps.
Working construction would be impossible. All the bending and stooping, not to mention the lifting. Right now, I avoid ever getting down on the floor because I know that the act of getting back up will result later in inflammation of my lower abdomen and my left groin.
By the way, Mike, I did some experiments, and there is substantial delay time between the physical movement and the consequent onset of the resulting inflammation. For me, I can get away with stooping to pick something off the floor a few times a day. But after I exceed a limit, I'll get the abdominal pain, starting about 20 minutes later.
If I do a rehab standing hip adduction exercise, or other exercise, the inflammation kicks in only about 33 hrs. later. Yes, 33 hours. So therefore, perhaps realize that the pain you have today actually resulted from something you did 30 hours ago. Sport hernia is a complex disease.
I'm only guessing, but it seems to me you might try to strictly avoid any bending, stooping or lifting for a full 6 days, and see if the pain in your lower abdomen subsides.
Your condition is certainly worse than mine right now.
Another thing, Mike. I've noticed a couple times that when I'm especially inflammed, if I lay down for a nap, even if only for 5 minutes of being unconscious, the inflammation can dramatically and instantly improve when I wake up. Makes me realize the nervous system is a very important component of the cursed sports hernia syndrome.
One more thing. If you must bend over to do some work, be absolutely sure to keep both feet planted to the floor the entire time. One of the most damaging things I can do today is bend over, and then while bent over, move my left foot forward a bit. This seemingly innocent movement does severe trauma, and sets me back several days.
Mike in Va had similar experience with this simple movement while bending over to place his daughter into the car. Remember, if you must bend, keep both feet planted or glued to the ground while your body is bent.
Hoping you'll see some progress soon.
I may be coming to Colorado to see Dr. Muschaweck in July, too, so hopefully we can have a drink.
We are definitely brothers off the court. I would love to play some pickup ball with you someday, and have a beer afterward.
The things you mention are all very similar to my symptoms, except I will start feeling bad within two hours. Like I say, 3 hours is all I can muster. After that I'm looking to sit, then lie down.
I foolishly put a microwave oven in the back seat of my truck and was toast for the rest of the day. That leaning over carrying a weight really puts pressure on the lower abs.
Yesterday I was driving and noticed a traumatized dog running along the side of a busy road. I stopped and another motorist stopped to try to get the dog to come to us so we could get him home. The other guy ran after the dog, and I tried to follow and took two steps. That was it. Couldn't even try to go further.
The worst day was when I did a house inspection for a friend of mine. I had to check every toilet, sink and tub for leaks. Which meant I had to get on my hands and knees for each one. By the time I was finished I couldn't get off the floor without grabbing something to pull myself up with. It becomes such a part of the day that you start looking for reasons not to reach or bend down.
I don't have the pain in the back of my legs. It seems very concentrated in the groin area.
Make sure you get in touch with me in July if you come out. I hope to have an appointment with her finalized soon. By the way, Orlando or LA?
Mike In Denver
I think there could be so many factors that lead to this injury. But I read an interesting article a while back on girls soccer injuries, mostly knee ACL tears etc. This particular article focused on body mechanics and how athletes run i.e. straight up or low and balanced. If I remember correctly, I think it was one of the trainers said you could predict who would be injured based on the way they ran. I think this is probably true for our injury as well. But having said that, I think there could be a number of factors. I just know that my body mechanics are pretty lousy... I'm kind of clumsy and I was never meant to be an athlete really... I just love to play.
In terms of inflammation, I think our diet plays a small part in inflammation. American grocery store food, generally speaking, is crap unless you buy strictly at a natural foods market. Our food is becoming less and less nutritious. We eat sugary unhealthy foods, sometimes not even knowing it. Sugar can cause inflammation. But I don't think a healthy diet will prevent this injury nor will it make it go away. Perhaps just limit the effects later. Because I've eaten pretty healthy in the last years, and I still got injured. Anytime you eat better, you feel better. When I eat foods with less sugar, my body knows it.
Mike in Denver,
I've been lucky in not having the ab symptoms that many have had here. But I did have them for a very short time when I had a lot of inflammation in my pelvis. But I rested and then began PT again to limited success -- to make most of the symptoms go away -- except inflammation in my groin/adductor region. It would only get irritated when squatting or sudden forced movements. I had trouble squeezing my legs together for a while and had trouble sleeping for a while. But physical therapy improved all that; just not to the point where I could run again. Mike, I think many of us are fatigued because this injury is depressing. It puts you on an emotional rollercoaster. I've been dealing with it since September '07 and it has been driving me nuts. So I don't know how some of you guys have been dealing with it so long. But I hope we all knock it out this year.
Mike in Denver,
Thanks for your feedback on common denominators. It looks like the one possibly in common is the butt/pelvic tilt maybe.
Because most of your pain is in the lower abdomen only, and no groin pain, nor pain in backs of legs (more adductors), I wonder if you might have an inguinal hernia instead? If I had to have one or the other, it seems to me an inguinal hernia is much better than a sports hernia. Usually much more feasible to fix 100%, I think.
Dr. Muschaweck will be able to tell you, I expect.
You said it right when you said emotional roller coaster. God, day before yesterday I thought to myself, "I'm actually starting to get a little bit better. I'll be able to avoid surgery if I'm patient."
Then yesterday, Boom, that sickening feeling of pain shooting in the lower left abdomen. The roller coaster never stops. Up, down, up, down, up, down...
I've only been on the roller coaster about 4 months now, Den. I don't know how you've been able to handle it since all the way back to September 2007.
Den, to rehab away your lower abdomen pain, which exercise seemed to be most effective for you (your early times, pre-surgery)?
Bottom line is that this injury is a mother. No ifs ands or buts about it. Be thankful....i mean extremely thankful that you know what you have. Myself and JC went to a boatload of docs and none knew of this. MRI's for the lumbar...negative.....groin tests...negative...on and on.
And as athletes we tried to fight through it....but what we really did is accentuate the compensations and weaken something that was strong previous. Near the end I could not even bend over to pick things up over the floor. I could not stand long. I could not do shi-! I overcompensated so much that two of my adductors (pectineus and longus) were calcified together. Meyers only sees this in rodeo riders.
So I implore all of you to be diligent in getting a diagnosis and rehabbing religiously. I worked out today for close to 3 hours.. 2 visits to gym and 3 miles around lake (2 laps)...
I did elliptical 60 minutes (2 x 30) bicycle (2 x 15)
Pool work.....45 minutes. 5 laps front...5 laps back...5 laps each side....5 laps carioci(sp?).....100 jumping jacks...i actually swam a lap (i was very afraid because last time i did this i was alid up for almost 2 weeks...onl,y thing that laid me up longer was the ab machine at the gym where you reach over your head and pull weight)...and my therapist told me my pain was due to a tight psoas (of course it was tight...it was doing the work of the RA)
I feel great today....just tender at incision
I agree with too much inflammation in the diet...
I started on systematic enzymes....Omegas.....vitamin b complex....Heavy doses of C.....and magnesium....and also been applying vitamin e to scar. All are working. i have no leg pressure for 4 days now.
I am very excited. if i did not have plantar fasciatis i could run....anyone ever have this....It is a bitch....Can I please catch a break? Tired of pain...
"Den, to rehab away your lower abdomen pain, which exercise seemed to be most effective for you (your early times, pre-surgery)?"
I hesitate to answer that because core work is a balanced effort of many exercises. Because you are injured many of your other muscles are compensating for that weakness which makes it tricky. But one of the exercises my massage therapist showed me was to lie flat (on your back) on the floor with your hands at your side or under your butt, then slowly lift both legs off the floor just a few inches and hold for 30 seconds to a minute or whatever your body is telling you. This way, you are not struggling with repetition, but a slow hold instead. I think this strengthens abs and maybe hip flexors, but not totally sure. But honestly, you need to be careful if that's painful because you don't want to make things worse. I was also doing pelvic tilts which I think many people with the injury can't do. Over time, I was able to work with an exercise ball -- which allows you to work hamstrings and abs.
When I was starting to get better, I was seeing a massage therapist in intervals during my rehab. She was working a lot on my hips. I was doing a lot of hip opening exercises which improved things quite a bit, but it also got terribly worse after that. I think mostly because I intensified my therapy. That's when the painful inflammation happened and I was getting fleeting sharp pains throughout my pelvis and my left ab.
I really think my symptoms, in general, have been more mild than a lot of guys here -- so I don't want to give you bad advice. I was going to a physical therapist who was using a program designed for core strengthening.
I do not want to be out of line but that excercise is not good. It makes your flexors work way too hard, same with low back and it is also very straining on the RA. When i was fighting i would lay down and my coach would stand above me and throw my legs to both sides and straight in front down to the floor and i had to use my abs to stop them from hitting (another hugely bad idea)...
There are many ways to excercise the core. You can excercise the inner unit...the mid unit and the outer unit...
Some things as simple as standing on 1 foot while balancing for 30m seconds to a minute....Same with sitting on a swiss ball while lifting opposite foot and and hand and holding...
Mid unit can be taxed by laying on back with feet open and heels touching while engaging transverse abdominis. (this takes someone to teach you)...
I am working with someone who is into spinal/pelvic stabilization and they choose 2 excercises from each to start. Unfortunately 1 of the outer unit ones i can not do yet.
I am also waiting for my CORE X unit to arrive. When it does i will let everyone know how it is. It is what grant hill used when he was discouraged and considering retirement after AP surgery. It was designed by McChenie (sp?) who trains the LA Lakers and this workout is great for anyone but was designed for AP rehab.
Interesting theory.. I'm sure both you and Surf have done your homework.. With that said, I've seen medical professionals for numerous tears and sprains and I've yet to meet one who's suggested inflammation is a positive factor in the healing process. Even those who choose alternative medicine use ice for injuries to reduce inflammation. The human body is miraculous and resilient when it comes to protecting and healing itself, but with the marvels of modern medicine, it's my belief that process can be enhanced with proper medication.
As I often state, we all have to do what's best for us based upon our own unique situations and desired end results. My thoughts are Dr. UM (and other SH surgeons) has treated thousands of SH patients back to health through her surgical process and recovery regiment. With no medical background, who am I to argue with that. She said take the pills.. I took them though I'm not suggesting a successful post-op recovery can't be attained through alternative means.
Anti Inflammatories block the checmical the body makes that is needed during the inflammatory process. That is why during prolotherapy we are told to NOT take Antiinflammatories becasue the whole idea behind proltherapy is to inflam the area so the natural process takes place..........If you read on the inflamation process it will explain it better then I have........there finding Anti inflammitories taken directly after any injury are not a good idea.......Like Surf said the inflamation process is needed in those critcal first 3 days....actually I think I read the process takes anywhere from 3-10 days....but then again surgery is a differrent animal because the tendon is surgically repaired therefore taking anti inflamatories may not be as big of a deal.......Ive got some HGH set aside for my recovery process :)....
You're not out of line at all... I don't think any of us have really good answers for what to do. If we did, surgery wouldn't be necessary. It's good dialogue. That exercise seemed to help me stregthen for whatever reason, but it didn't cure anything.
I don't know if I mentioned it, but the pain started in the groin and moved to the lower abs. The groin pain is always there and tender to the touch. The ab pain is mainly to the left but it does go across the entire lower ab area. Like I said before, both GP's I went to ruled out the inguinal hernia. And, the people (5) I have spoken to who had the inguinal surgery didn't complain about their lower abs hurting at all. They said it was more a nuisance than a pain. I would much rather have the inguinal surgery than the SH surgery.
I realize that maybe the doctors missed something. I'm hoping that Dr. Muschaweck is able to confirm one way or the other.
After thinking about it, I think you're right to take the anti-inflammatories that Dr. Muschaweck prescribed, exactly how she directed. Ten days of them sounds reasonable. Some people eat Advil like candy.
Mike in Denver,
My groin pain is not tender to the touch. Dr. Muschaweck's hernia clinic does far more inguinal hernia surgeries than sports hernia surgeries, I'm guessing. So it seems to me you're doing the smart thing by having her examine you.
One week to Munich. I'll be following Dr. UM's orders strictly when it comes to rehab and medicine.
How are you feeling Mello?
Mike in Va