From 32:00 on the roads to sub 30 on the track

What are some other times you've run? In general, work up to running more mileage and add in doubles to increase your volume as much as you can handle. Get a long run in, and focus on longer repeats and threshold work during your base season.

You're going to need to hit ~14:30 for 5k on the track in order to be in 30flat shape, as well as ~4:10 mile or a sub 67 HM to be in near equivalent shape. I'd say work to one of those other time goals and then try a 10k.

Which should I focus on hitting first? I'd say the training schedule of my club lends itself better to training for the HM as a lot of guys train for the marathon and the long runs each week are a key focus.

I haven't raced a HM since 2008 and I ran 1:13 then. At the time I was running 4:35 miles indoors and ran low 27 8Ks.

I haven't run a 5k or mile this training season/cycle, but last time I ran 15:45 and 4:27 a couple week apart. During the same month I ran my second best 10k at USATF Club nationals in mid 32s.

Anyway my PRs over the course of the last 6 years are:

800 indoors: 2:05

Mile indoors: 4:27

3000 indoors: 9:00

5000 indoors: 15:45

10000 roads: 32:00

HM: 1:13

Build up your base this winter first. If there are indoor meets near you enter a few to keep your training fun. Do a mile, 3k, 5k or whatever you feel like. Then this spring try and find some meets where you could run a 1500, 3k or 5k. I'd say some good goals would be to run sub 4:05 in the 1500, sub 8:50 in the 3k and near 15 flat in the 5k. After you run a few meets buildup your mileage again over the summer and find a few road races to keep you fresh. Repeat the cycle you did again and by the following spring you could be in shape to run near 14:30 and 30flat if you stay consistent.

If you don't want to focus on the shorter stuff then find a good HM training plan you can stick to and focus on a long buildup for next fall where you can try and run ~67 minutes. If you do that, you'll have a nice solid base where you can run a few indoor meets afterwards to sharpen up then make an attempt at 30flat in the spring.

Thanks. I really appreciate the tips. I have trouble setting intermediate goals so it helps to have an third party lay down some shorter term goal times. There are some indoor meets around so I will do some shorter races, likely one mile, 3k and 5k.

Just don't change what's been working. Keep building and get STRONGER. My fear is that you'll become too speed-focused and experience a decline in performance. It happens to some runners.

There is a 49 year old in our running community who does nothing but run. Well, he works, but he had no other interests, no children and is a total jerk.

At a race last summer, he didn't too well and was passed the last 200 meters by a female Kenyan. At the awards banquet, he was pounding the table in frustration, saying how he was going to "train his brains out and pound her in the ground next year."

If he only saw the people laughing at him. What a joke.

I'm not really sure what you're insinuating.

I'm kind of in the same boat as you OP.

If anyone has any. Comments on the training Last Call has listed in their post above, and how it can be improved, I'd be very interested to hear some suggestions. I have had similar training over the last year and have been running right at that same 32 flat range.

Based on the times you've run with the given mileage, you're going to need to ramp up the mileage to have a chance to get to 30 for 10K. Probably in the range of

70-90mpw. Continue with the long run, make sure it's quality, and long hill reps once every 10-14 days.

i'm the same age & just ran 31 flat on the roads while training for a HM (75-85mpw), looking to go sub 30 on the track by the spring of 2015 (spring 2014 i want to focus on 800/1500/5K). my advice based on what's working for me:

-take a track season to get your 800/mile/3K/5K PRs down...i don't know if you can go sub30 with your current PRs. that doesn't mean drop to 40mpw and do all speed work. keep the volume at 60 -/+ 10mpw throughout. just change up the workouts & get in the weightroom.

-more intensity. to the plan you laid out (which i'm assuming is your 10K plan), add:

1) another workout on Day 4 or 5. since Day 2 looks like a structured workout on the track, make this one less structured. maybe a 10-12 mile progression run on the trails. go out relaxed and pick it up on the way back going by feel. if you're feeling good you should finish the last mile at 10K pace or better.

2) some sub-race pace work for developing power and efficiency. i do two sessions a week in the mornings on the track (in spikes) after an easy 30min of jogging:

- 4-6 x flying 30-60m all out, full walking recovery

- 4-6 200s & 300s @ 800-to-mile pace, full jog recovery

these are NOT ball-busters. just focus on running RELAXED & FAST. i do these sessions on days where i do workouts in the evenings (so your Day2 and Day5). serves as a nice a.m. shake-out session.

3) make your long run a workout some weeks. 13-16 relaxed can be your 'easy' or 'recovery' long run, but also try:

-2h or 20miles, whichever comes first

-a 'steady state'-type long run of 16-18 where you go out relaxed the 1st half, but come back 8-9 miles at somewhere between HM and M pace

4) hills somewhere in there. short (30-50m) & steep for pure power, longer (150-200m) & gradual for extended power & maintaing form

-more volume. I don't think a 60mpw average is going to cut it a as your PRs say you're not talented enough on the speed-side of things to be able to run a fast 10K off that. adding the two morning runs/track sessions i suggested + extending your long run is a start. forget the day off, maybe only when you really need it every 6-8 weeks.

there are no shortcuts, to get fit you have to put in the work.

Great tips. Thanks.

Last Call wrote:

I'm not really sure what you're insinuating.

Are you 49 years old? Are you a total jerk? Do you do nothing but run? Have you ever pounded a table in frustration?

Do you have a guilty conscience?

Nope to all of the above, minus my good old catholic guilt.

You seem like a total jerk though.

Distance Maniac wrote:

Based on the times you've run with the given mileage, you're going to need to ramp up the mileage to have a chance to get to 30 for 10K. Probably in the range of

70-90mpw. Continue with the long run, make sure it's quality, and long hill reps once every 10-14 days.

I was just looking at my old logs at the most i've run in a month is 318 miles, which is like an average of 74MPW week. I did that for two months and then ramped up too much intensity and my hips fell apart.

This past 6 months my progression was like this: June 147.90, July 195.25, August 212.75, Sept 260.48, Oct 238.36, Nov 232.13. I think for the next three months months during this little indoor season my goal will be to hit 280-300 miles per month which is above 65-70 per week. No low months allowed, like this past fall, which will require much better consistency on my part. It will work out to being my best 3 consecutive months mileage wise.

One week down and 12 more to go. I was right around 65 for the week.

I ran 15:15 on the indoor track this morning so that's a step in the right direction.

Work on breaking 32:00 first. Then maybe 31:30. Expecting to cut 2:00 off of your 10K best is crazy unless you are wejo training under JK.

Same thoughts as others...

- Increase mileage

- Add another weekly workout (med-long tempo) or end the last half of your long runs with a tempo/upbeat pace

- Include some short strides after your easy runs a few times a week

Don't be discouraged if you do not hit your goal this track season (2014). You have the potential to grab a sub-30 in 2015. Why not give 31:00 a shot later this year (May/June)? Continue building endurance/strength through the winter and into early spring, then move into some 10k specific workouts for 4-6 weeks. Might have enough to get below 31:00 by late spring/early summer. I'd give that a try, see where you end up this year, then re-evaluate/adjust for 2015 track season. Good luck!

[quote]NO MORE FREE RANDY. wrote:

3) make your long run a workout some weeks. 13-16 relaxed can be your 'easy' or 'recovery' long run, but also try:

-2h or 20miles, whichever comes first

-a 'steady state'-type long run of 16-18 where you go out relaxed the 1st half, but come back 8-9 miles at somewhere between HM and M pace

quote]

I'm not necessarily saying it's wrong; but are you sure that long run workout is a good idea? It seems like manufacturing the long run would sort of defeat the purpose, which is solely aerobic development.

Thanks guys. I'd liked to think of my goals as Tiered and 30 for 10k is the Tier 1 goal. This is more something I hope to happen by 2015, not 2014. But yah it probably is a little pointless to look that far down the road.

I think the idea really is that I don't have any immediate term goals for this track season or summer. Does make sense than to skip v02max type workouts and just do mixture of lactic threshold type stuff (using these terms in the loosest way possible)? I always feel conflicted when my training partners are ripping off 800s. Should I join in even though I'm not super concerned with racing at my highest level in 6 weeks? I have a history of injuries, which is also why I hesitate to do fast 1000s, 800s, 600s, etc.

In terms of building an aerobic base, what are some good staple workouts to do once a week, given my current fitness level of 15:15? I'll be doing one long run, added strides this week and will try to keep up with them (its like flossing),

Like what are some rough times